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Archive-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:20:43 +0200
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:20:33 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0
From: GRANT SCHOEP <biggs@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: FREE-VMS@LP.SE
Message-ID: <009C447A.46E00640.1@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
Subject: Current Situation
I just found out about FreeVMS, but am sorta disappointed in that
there doesn't seem to be any recent info on it. Is the idea of having a
FreeVMS still around? Is there actual code for it out there that I could try
running on a machine? I see there is a backup program for it, but can't find
any info on the actual OS.
So, in other words, I have looked at the webpage www.free-vms.org, but
just was wondering if there is newer info than March, 1997.
thanks
-grant
-biggs@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:57:00 +0200
Return-Path: owner-Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:20:33 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0
From: GRANT SCHOEP <biggs@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: FREE-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <009C447A.46E00640.1@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
Subject: Current Situation
I just found out about FreeVMS, but am sorta disappointed in that
there doesn't seem to be any recent info on it. Is the idea of having a
FreeVMS still around? Is there actual code for it out there that I could try
running on a machine? I see there is a backup program for it, but can't find
any info on the actual OS.
So, in other words, I have looked at the webpage www.free-vms.org, but
just was wondering if there is newer info than March, 1997.
thanks
-grant
-biggs@vax1.bemidji.msus.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:35:03 +0200
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:34:55 -0400
Message-ID: <199804060934.FAA14895@harvey.cyclic.com>
From: Jim Kingdon <kingdonc@cyclic.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <009C447A.46E00640.1@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu> (message from GRANT SCHOEP on Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:20:33 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0)
Subject: Re: Current Situation
References: <009C447A.46E00640.1@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
> Is the idea of having a FreeVMS still around?
Well, as an idea, yes. That is, there still seems to some interest,
although relatively little active work.
> Is there actual code for it out there that I could try running on a
> machine?
Not a lot. You say you've found VMSBACKUP, and Kevin Handy has
written/collected a few library routines. This code runs on VMS,
linux, and/or other existing OSes. Other than that most of Free-VMS
needs to be written.
> So, in other words, I have looked at the webpage www.free-vms.org, but
> just was wondering if there is newer info than March, 1997
Well, my own web page
http://www.cyclic.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html
is a bit newer (in the sense of when it was last edited). But only
minor things have changed in the last year. The whole thing is one
big volunteer opportunity :-).
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:42:05 +0200
Return-Path: owner-Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:34:55 -0400
Message-ID: <199804060934.FAA14895@harvey.cyclic.com>
From: Jim Kingdon <kingdonc@cyclic.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <009C447A.46E00640.1@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu> (message from GRANT SCHOEP on Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:20:33 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0)
Subject: Re: Current Situation
References: <009C447A.46E00640.1@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
> Is the idea of having a FreeVMS still around?
Well, as an idea, yes. That is, there still seems to some interest,
although relatively little active work.
> Is there actual code for it out there that I could try running on a
> machine?
Not a lot. You say you've found VMSBACKUP, and Kevin Handy has
written/collected a few library routines. This code runs on VMS,
linux, and/or other existing OSes. Other than that most of Free-VMS
needs to be written.
> So, in other words, I have looked at the webpage www.free-vms.org, but
> just was wondering if there is newer info than March, 1997
Well, my own web page
http://www.cyclic.com/~kingdon/free-vms.html
is a bit newer (in the sense of when it was last edited). But only
minor things have changed in the last year. The whole thing is one
big volunteer opportunity :-).
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:44:18 +0200
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:44:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gary H. Burner" <g_burner@clark.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: BOSS-> GT
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980406213252.14249B-100000@shell.clark.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've made an attempt to get BOSS up on my linux box. BOSS comes with unix
make files that don't quite work for me. In particular, the lines
GT = gt
GTFLAGS =
.p.c:
$(GT) $(GTFLAGS) $*.p
produce the message that the gt command could not be found.
Can anyone tell me what compiler/program the gt command should run?
Despite having the ".p" suffix, the files are not pascal files. Not a
"begin" or "end" anywhere to be seen.
Anyone have any ideas?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:14:47 +0200
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: BOSS-> GT
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.98Apr7040345@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:03:45 GMT
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980406213252.14249B-100000@shell.clark.net>
In-Reply-To: "Gary H. Burner"'s message of Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:44:10 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980406213252.14249B-100000@shell.clark.net> "Gary H. Burner" <g_burner@clark.net> writes:
I've made an attempt to get BOSS up on my linux box. BOSS comes with unix
make files that don't quite work for me. In particular, the lines
GT = gt
GTFLAGS =
.p.c:
$(GT) $(GTFLAGS) $*.p
Uhmmm, what BOSS do you use? I know of only one, and that one can be
found in ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/boss.zip. In that archive, I
find no .p file.
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:22:15 +0200
Return-Path: owner-Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:44:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gary H. Burner" <g_burner@clark.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: BOSS-> GT
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980406213252.14249B-100000@shell.clark.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I've made an attempt to get BOSS up on my linux box. BOSS comes with unix
make files that don't quite work for me. In particular, the lines
GT = gt
GTFLAGS =
.p.c:
$(GT) $(GTFLAGS) $*.p
produce the message that the gt command could not be found.
Can anyone tell me what compiler/program the gt command should run?
Despite having the ".p" suffix, the files are not pascal files. Not a
"begin" or "end" anywhere to be seen.
Anyone have any ideas?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 04:52:01 +0200
Return-Path: owner-Free-VMS@lp.se
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: BOSS-> GT
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.98Apr7040345@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:03:45 GMT
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980406213252.14249B-100000@shell.clark.net>
In-Reply-To: "Gary H. Burner"'s message of Mon, 6 Apr 1998 21:44:10 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980406213252.14249B-100000@shell.clark.net> "Gary H. Burner" <g_burner@clark.net> writes:
I've made an attempt to get BOSS up on my linux box. BOSS comes with unix
make files that don't quite work for me. In particular, the lines
GT = gt
GTFLAGS =
.p.c:
$(GT) $(GTFLAGS) $*.p
Uhmmm, what BOSS do you use? I know of only one, and that one can be
found in ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/boss.zip. In that archive, I
find no .p file.
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:14:44 +0200
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:14:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gary H. Burner" <g_burner@clark.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: BOSS -> GT
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980407000046.8548A-100000@shell.clark.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Uhmmm, what BOSS do you use? I know of only one, and that one can be
> found in ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/boss.zip. In that archive, I
> find no .p file.
Actually, I followed a link off of the free-vms web page. It is the link
under unreviewed for ftp://boss1.physik.uni-bonn.de/pub/dcl.
I just downloaded the boss.zip file that you referenced. I'll see how far
I can get with that one.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:46:50 +0200
Return-Path: owner-Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:14:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Gary H. Burner" <g_burner@clark.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: BOSS -> GT
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980407000046.8548A-100000@shell.clark.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> Uhmmm, what BOSS do you use? I know of only one, and that one can be
> found in ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/boss.zip. In that archive, I
> find no .p file.
Actually, I followed a link off of the free-vms web page. It is the link
under unreviewed for ftp://boss1.physik.uni-bonn.de/pub/dcl.
I just downloaded the boss.zip file that you referenced. I'll see how far
I can get with that one.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:39:38 +0200
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:39:30 +0200
Message-ID: <1812-Tue07Apr1998083930+0200-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
BCC: Luis Vallera <lvallera@BIC.PT>
Subject: Duplicate postings....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Two people reported a double posting problem on this list. What happened
was that one of the list members bounced all messages back to the list.
This member has been virtually removed (actually, I've just set the
attributes /NOMAIL and /NOREPRO on him).
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:41:46 +0200
Return-Path: levitte@lp.se
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:39:30 +0200
Message-ID: <1812-Tue07Apr1998083930+0200-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
BCC:
Subject: Duplicate postings....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Two people reported a double posting problem on this list. What happened
was that one of the list members bounced all messages back to the list.
This member has been virtually removed (actually, I've just set the
attributes /NOMAIL and /NOREPRO on him).
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:11:40 +0200
Return-Path: levitte@lp.se
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:39:30 +0200
Message-ID: <1812-Tue07Apr1998083930+0200-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Duplicate postings....
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To: free-vms@lp.se
Two people reported a double posting problem on this list. What happened
was that one of the list members bounced all messages back to the list.
This member has been virtually removed (actually, I've just set the
attributes /NOMAIL and /NOREPRO on him).
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:08:28 +0200
Message-ID: <352D0E41.E22A95CB@net-link.net>
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:06:57 -0400
From: "Todd C. Campbell" <toddc@net-link.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Duplicate postings....
References: <1812-Tue07Apr1998083930+0200-levitte@lp.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Richard and the rest of the group,
It's just nice to see any sort of activity on the list :)
I've been really swamped with work, but I should be able to contribute more
soon!
-Todd
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:03:07 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:12:18 -0500
Message-ID: <0004578F.1870@advocatehealth.com>
From: David.Dachtera@ADVOCATEHEALTH.COM (David Dachtera)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Mailing List postings....
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
Folks,
I'd like to suggest that when sending a message to the
list, please don't assume that your identity is revealed
by the headers and trailers - it may not be, as in the
case of this workstation here: cc:Mail behind a corporate
firewall. I get only the text of the message, no headers
or trailers.
Please include some clue as to your identity in your
message. It will help the others know to whom they are
responding.
David J. Dachtera
david.dachtera.nospam at advocatehealth.com
(Note how the e-mail address is intentionally "scrambled"
to help thwart address extractors.)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:03:43 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:33:42 -0500
Message-ID: <00045798.1870@advocatehealth.com>
From: David.Dachtera@ADVOCATEHEALTH.COM (David Dachtera)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
To: FreeVMS Mailing List
From: David J. Dachtera
(djesys.nospam at earthlink.net)
Re: FreeVMS Project - Future directions, viability
Folks,
Of recent, certain events have raised questions in my
mind as to whether FreeVMS is worth pursuing further. I'd
like to present these to the mailing list for your
consideration, just to provoke thought.
In e-mail discussions of recent with John Wisniewski of
Digital, Dallas / Fort Worth (Texas, USA), it's been made
abundantly clear that Digital's future thrust is almost
exclusively Alpha, mostly WIN/NT, and with OpenVMS as
mainly a server platform with the potential to run
Windows programs.
In the Dallas / Forth Worth DECUS LUG's newletter,
"Longwords", articles have been published where in the
point is repeatedly underscored that Digital has no
interest in "PC-VMS", or in OVMS on _ANY_ non-Digital
platform. While we may disagree with them strongly, this
does appear to be Digital's position. Digital and the
"PC-VMS" / FreeVMS factions appear to be diametrically
opposed.
With the establishment of the OpenVMS Hobbyist license
program, "old" versions (thru V6.1) of OpenVMS-VAX are
being practically given away. However, the OpenVMS
hobbyist will still be totally dependent on freeware for
compilers (Gnu-C) and network stacks and clients/servers
(CMU/IP, MadGoat) since licenses for such Digital software
are still well out of the range we call "affordable".
Also, the "hobbyist" license is restricted such that you
cannot legally develop software for profit under its
terms.
John Wisniewski emphasised, and Digital's web site
appears to support this, that Digital's current
partnering programs focus almost exclusively on
OpenVMS-Alpha.
The purchase of "Digital Semiconductor" by Intel seems to
all but spell the demise of the "x86" architecture as we
know it. Compaq's recent thrust to acquire Digital may
moderate that a bit; however, even Compaq will endeavor to
"stay current" as technology advances. Whether BSD will be
ported to x86's successor remains to be seen, but I rather
tend to believe that it will.
These all appear to also indicate the impending end of the
VAX product lifecycle, although that day does not appear to
be here yet, as VAX machines can still be had from Digital.
So, with these thrusts and directions by Digital, Intel
and Microsoft (a "DIM" standard?), I'm wondering if a
better future for "FreeVMS" might be to pursue a more
commercial course, such as perhaps proposing that some
small group approach Digital in an effort to negotiate
some affordable form of source license for OVMS-AXP to
the group which would allow it to be ported to IA-64 when
that CPU becomes widely available, and presently to
Intel-x86. The resulting product could then be sold for
much less than what Digital demands, assuming the
original agreement and other factors make that possible.
Digital appears to be concerned about supporting OVMS on
any non-Digital platform, or even on "retired" Digital
platforms (see http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/faq.html,
the answer to the second question: "Digital does not want
to encumber itself with exposure to support, royalty, or
other issues..."). If a small group were to take on these
"encumberances" ("costs of doing business"?), might that
satisfy Digital's criteria, while at the same time
satisfy at least part of "FreeVMS"'s goal of making the
o.s. widely available, even if not "free"-ly so?
Again, these comments are put forth only to provoke
thought. I would be receptive to participating actively
in the proposed thrust, should any interest materialize,
whatever final form the proposed action might take.
David J. Dachtera,
doing business as
DJE Systems
(it should be easy to un-"scramble" my e-mail address at
the "top" of this message)
Home Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:55:27 +0200
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:55:59 -0400
Message-ID: <199804092355.TAA08910@harvey.cyclic.com>
From: Jim Kingdon <kingdonc@cyclic.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <00045798.1870@advocatehealth.com> (David.Dachtera@ADVOCATEHEALTH.COM)
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
References: <00045798.1870@advocatehealth.com>
> Digital has no interest in "PC-VMS", or in OVMS on _ANY_ non-Digital
> platform.
Well, a lot of people on this list seem to look to Digital for
leadership, so if such looking continues then I guess Digital's lack
of interest sort of does us in. Personally, I find one of the points
of free software is that you can do things without waiting for The One
Who Is In Control to bless it, but my opinion doesn't necessarily
matter. That is, I'm not planning to single-handedly make Free-VMS
happen, or even necessarily contribute more than modest amounts of
effort.
> some small group approach Digital in an effort to negotiate some
> affordable form of source license for OVMS-AXP to the group which
> would allow it to be ported to IA-64
But, I thought you just said that Digital was not interested in VMS on
non-Digital platforms. So why would they license it? I'm also far
from convinced that this would be a viable business for the "small
group" even assuming affordable licensing.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:48:20 +0200
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "Noah Paul" <noahp@tiac.net>
To: <Free-VMS@lp.se>
Subject: FreeVMS -- Is it going anywhere?
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:48:55 -0400
Message-ID: <01bd6476$a3a7bec0$8f8903c7@dataweb>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Personally, I am a fan of old computers, operating systems and software.
VMS is still alive but is probably heading downwards. I already have Linux
on my computer, and think having a VMS would also be very interesting.
But Free-VMS has been around for a couple of years(?) and hasn't
produced anything that I can run on my computer? Is there any work being
done on it? If so, I'll stick around. :)
Regards,
Noah Paul
noahp@tiac.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:18:25 +0200
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:15:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "bgInc. -- Choice is overrated" <tom.otoole@jhu.edu>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
In-Reply-To: "Your message dated Thu, 09 Apr 1998 19:55:59 -0400" <199804092355.TAA08910@harvey.cyclic.com>
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <01IVPAOVIWVU8WYQLB@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <00045798.1870@advocatehealth.com> <00045798.1870@advocatehealth.com>
>> some small group approach Digital in an effort to negotiate some
>> affordable form of source license for OVMS-AXP to the group which
>> would allow it to be ported to IA-64
Why is this considered useful? Sounds like more vaporware bandwagoneering
about 'merced! merced!' which doesn't even exist, creating a self fulfilling
prophecy that 'everyone will move to merced'. If you want a commercial vms,
it already exists on alpha, which also exists, by the way.
>But, I thought you just said that Digital was not interested in VMS on
>non-Digital platforms. So why would they license it? I'm also far
>from convinced that this would be a viable business for the "small
>group" even assuming affordable licensing.
right on.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:31:13 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 13:05:03 -0500
Message-ID: <0004BF22.1870@advocatehealth.com>
From: David.Dachtera@ADVOCATEHEALTH.COM (David Dachtera)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re[2]: FreeVMS Project - Future?
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
To (Whomever):
You forgot to quote the most important part of that
sentence: "which would allow it to be ported to IA-64
when that CPU becomes widely available, and presently to
Intel-x86."
Commercial VMS for Alpha does exist as do Alphas;
however, Intel machines outnumber Alphas by numbers on
the order of 100's (1000's?) to 1. The margins are
slightly lower for VAX Vs. Intel.
Does this answer the viability question? Tens
(hundreds?) of millions of Intel machine buyers can't
be wrong.
Here's an example of something that developers could
start doing to express, in a small but significant way,
their support for OpenVMS on Intel (even if the binaries
do not currently exist):
$ arch_type = 'f$getsyi( "arch_type" )'
$ if arch_type .eq. 1 then arch_name := vax
$ if arch_type .eq. 2 then arch_name := alpha
$ if arch_type .eq. 3 then arch_name := x86
$ define/system prod$exe ddcu:[root.'arch_type']
Code like this could appear in software product startups
to allow, for example, OpenVMS VAXstations and OpenVMS
Intel workstations to co-exist in a LAVc environment. The
"ARCH_NAME" keyword would be better, except that it is
not supported in VMS prior to V5.5. HW_MODEL might also
indicate this, though the suitable range of values is
difficult to guess outside of the inner circle of OpenVMS
Engineering (<1024 = VAX, 1024 >= ?? = AXP).
If we don't support OpenVMS on Intel as a collective
group, how can we expect Digital to ever see our side of
the story? Expecting Digital to participate is probably
too much to hope for, but at least if they don't hinder
us ala Bill Gates & Co., then we may stand a chance.
I wonder if Linus Torvalds has a brother or sister who's
a VMS bigot? (I'm sure Linus himself is too busy with
Linux to help us with FreeVMS.)
David J. Dachtera
djesys.nospam at earthlink.net
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
Author: Free-VMS@lp.se at PO_EXTERNET
Date: 4/10/98 10:15 AM
>> some small group approach Digital in an effort to negotiate some
>> affordable form of source license for OVMS-AXP to the group which
>> would allow it to be ported to IA-64
Why is this considered useful? Sounds like more vaporware bandwagoneering
about 'merced! merced!' which doesn't even exist, creating a self fulfilling
prophecy that 'everyone will move to merced'. If you want a commercial vms,
it already exists on alpha, which also exists, by the way.
>But, I thought you just said that Digital was not interested in VMS on
>non-Digital platforms. So why would they license it? I'm also far
>from convinced that this would be a viable business for the "small
>group" even assuming affordable licensing.
right on.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:28:15 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:28:21 -0400
Message-ID: <199804281428.KAA28729@harvey.cyclic.com>
From: Jim Kingdon <kingdonc@cyclic.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <0004BF22.1870@advocatehealth.com> (David.Dachtera@ADVOCATEHEALTH.COM)
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
References: <0004BF22.1870@advocatehealth.com>
> I wonder if Linus Torvalds has a brother or sister who's
> a VMS bigot? (I'm sure Linus himself is too busy with
> Linux to help us with FreeVMS.)
Are there any colleges which still run VMS? Finding students at such
places who would like to run VMS at home is one obvious place to look.
I hear my alma mater has switched away from VMS, however.
I sort of wonder whether the only people with the time and enthusiasm
to get a project like this started may be the younger generation, and
the only people who care about VMS may us old farts.
Anyone feel like packaging up BOSS for Linux (or *BSD, or the Hurd, or
whatever), for example in .rpm and/or .deb format? That might be a
"low-hanging fruit" in terms of attracting people. And once we have
people starting to run BOSS, it shouldn't be hard to figure out a way
to make "EDIT/EDT" start up one of the EDT clones which is already
running on those operating systems. And stuff like that.
> If we don't support OpenVMS on Intel as a collective
> group, how can we expect Digital to ever see our side of
> the story? Expecting Digital to participate is probably
> too much to hope for, but at least if they don't hinder
> us ala Bill Gates & Co., then we may stand a chance.
My feelings exactly. If we wait for |c|o|m|p|a|q| to do this for us,
it won't happen; Linux/Unix/NT is a more profitable strategy for them,
and they are already starting to move towards end-of-lifing VMS
(that's not an official decision, but is based on what I see on their
web site). And even if they can be convinced, having some code and a
user community to show them is going to be more convincing than "you
really _should_ do this".
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:10:59 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:09:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Stoffel <acs@campus.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
In-Reply-To: <199804281428.KAA28729@harvey.cyclic.com>
To: free-vms@lp.se
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980428105853.26218A-100000@rcclnk.sunyrockland.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Jim Kingdon wrote:
> Are there any colleges which still run VMS?
Yes, many actually.... and for the same reasons as many businesses....
(I'll admit to being biased... I work for a Digital VAR that sells
VMS based software....)
From your next comment though, you've asked the wrong question....
> Finding students at such places who would like to run VMS at home
> is one obvious place to look.
How many colleges give STUDENTS access to machines with VMS ? Not many,
especially since the ones using VMS have a tendency to use them for
mission critical activities....
> I sort of wonder whether the only people with the time and enthusiasm
> to get a project like this started may be the younger generation, and
> the only people who care about VMS may us old farts.
Not being an old "fart" myself (I didn't run into VMS until 1987).... I
would prefer VMS over any other OS
But it doesn't run on my laptop.... and neither does Linux at this point
(PowerPC Powerbook)....
-Andy-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Stoffel Project Consultant voice: (914) 574-4784
acs@campus.com http://acs.sunyrockland.edu/ fax: (914) 574-4354
Campus Consultants Group, Inc. A Campus America Company
[******* PGP public key: http://acs.sunyrockland.edu/pubkey.txt *******]
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:43:34 +0200
Message-ID: <3545F85F.987B82C2@net-link.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:40:15 -0400
From: "Todd C. Campbell" <toddc@net-link.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
References: <0004BF22.1870@advocatehealth.com> <199804281428.KAA28729@harvey.cyclic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Jim Kingdon wrote:
> > I wonder if Linus Torvalds has a brother or sister who's
> > a VMS bigot? (I'm sure Linus himself is too busy with
> > Linux to help us with FreeVMS.)
> Are there any colleges which still run VMS? Finding students at such
> places who would like to run VMS at home is one obvious place to look.
> I hear my alma mater has switched away from VMS, however.
Sure, Western Michigan University still runs VMS....that's kinda how I got
hooked :)
> I sort of wonder whether the only people with the time and enthusiasm
> to get a project like this started may be the younger generation, and
> the only people who care about VMS may us old farts.
HUmmm I sure hope not.... I've been using VMS and Linux for a while now...
but I'm not an old fart yet. :) I have seen lots of movement in getting
Linux on VAXes
but I feel that is because the Linux community and the internet sort of go
hand in hand.
I'll run anything but the Evil NT. I prefer VMS to Linux, only because I
have more experience
with it's security.
> Anyone feel like packaging up BOSS for Linux (or *BSD, or the Hurd, or
> whatever), for example in .rpm and/or .deb format? That might be a
> "low-hanging fruit" in terms of attracting people. And once we have
> people starting to run BOSS, it shouldn't be hard to figure out a way
> to make "EDIT/EDT" start up one of the EDT clones which is already
> running on those operating systems. And stuff like that.
I agree, that might start a push, but don't forget TPU :)
-Todd
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:46:23 +0200
From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <199804281545.LAA09102@shell.monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:45:10 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <199804281428.KAA28729@harvey.cyclic.com> from "Jim Kingdon" at Apr 28, 98 10:28:21 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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> I sort of wonder whether the only people with the time and enthusiasm
> to get a project like this started may be the younger generation, and
> the only people who care about VMS may us old farts.
>
> Anyone feel like packaging up BOSS for Linux (or *BSD, or the Hurd, or
> whatever), for example in .rpm and/or .deb format? That might be a
> "low-hanging fruit" in terms of attracting people. And once we have
> people starting to run BOSS, it shouldn't be hard to figure out a way
> to make "EDIT/EDT" start up one of the EDT clones which is already
> running on those operating systems. And stuff like that.
As an OLD ex-DEC Fart who runs FreeBSD at home... I'll volunteer
to package anything we've got in FreeBSD pkg_add format.
I may need some porting help if the code's too Linux specific.
However, what's BOSS? A DCL equivalent?
>
> > If we don't support OpenVMS on Intel as a collective
> > group, how can we expect Digital to ever see our side of
> > the story? Expecting Digital to participate is probably
> > too much to hope for, but at least if they don't hinder
> > us ala Bill Gates & Co., then we may stand a chance.
>
> My feelings exactly. If we wait for |c|o|m|p|a|q| to do this for us,
> it won't happen; Linux/Unix/NT is a more profitable strategy for them,
> and they are already starting to move towards end-of-lifing VMS
> (that's not an official decision, but is based on what I see on their
> web site). And even if they can be convinced, having some code and a
> user community to show them is going to be more convincing than "you
> really _should_ do this".
>
I think we need to take all the existing VMS-Like stuff and begin
to get them into shape.
Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 |
| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
| pechter@shell.monmouth.com |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:46:46 +0200
Message-ID: <3545F919.FE4875F5@net-link.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:43:22 -0400
From: "Todd C. Campbell" <toddc@net-link.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
References: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980428105853.26218A-100000@rcclnk.sunyrockland.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andy Stoffel wrote:
How many colleges give STUDENTS access to machines with VMS ? Not many,
> especially since the ones using VMS have a tendency to use them for
> mission critical activities....
>
Well, that's not entirely true, all of the universities that I know of that
run VMS
do give access to the students, infact, at those same schools, they limit
access to only
the UN*X like os.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:06:33 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:06:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chuck Milam <milam@uwosh.edu>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Andy Stoffel <acs@campus.com>
CC: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980428105853.26218A-100000@rcclnk.sunyrockland.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.980428130517.8789A-100000@epsilon>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Andy Stoffel wrote:
> > Finding students at such places who would like to run VMS at home
> > is one obvious place to look.
>
> How many colleges give STUDENTS access to machines with VMS ? Not many,
> especially since the ones using VMS have a tendency to use them for
> mission critical activities....
We do! Granted, it's mostly for E-mail access...not a whole lot of
development going on...
----------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Milam I.T. Division - Academic Computing
milam@uwosh.edu University of Wisconsin at Oshkosh
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:17:40 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:17:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Benjamin M Coakley <COAKLEY@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
To: Free-VMS@LP.SE
Message-ID: <01IWEM7QC3EW8Y7DDD@AC.GRIN.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
> Are there any colleges which still run VMS? Finding students at such
> places who would like to run VMS at home is one obvious place to look.
> I hear my alma mater has switched away from VMS, however.
Oh, yes. AC.GRIN.EDU is a VAX-6100, running VMS 6.2. Ever heard of a
mailer called Dreams? That's what I'm using to write this.
And that's how I got interested in Free-VMS. I had a spare hard drive
for my PC, and I was looking for an OS to play with. Unfortunately,
Free-VMS wasn't ready yet, so I ended up with Linux.
--
Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu
Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH
Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:21:35 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:21:16 CST6CDT5,M4.1.0,M10.5.0
From: Normal View <biggs@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <009C5639.5E5D81FA.9@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
> Are there any colleges which still run VMS? Finding students at such
> places who would like to run VMS at home is one obvious place to look.
> I hear my alma mater has switched away from VMS, however.
>
Most of the colleges here in MN all have VAX/VMS for student use. Here
at Bemidji State University in northern MN we have a bunch of Vaxen. The CS
department has a cluster of 7 VAXen and 2 Alpha's. There's alot of die hard
VMS lovers here. So its still being used in some places.
-grant
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:31:32 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:30:57 -0400
Message-ID: <199804281930.PAA29511@harvey.cyclic.com>
From: Jim Kingdon <kingdonc@cyclic.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <199804281545.LAA09102@shell.monmouth.com> (message from Bill/Carolyn Pechter on Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:45:10 -0400 (EDT))
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
References: <199804281545.LAA09102@shell.monmouth.com>
> As an OLD ex-DEC Fart who runs FreeBSD at home... I'll volunteer
> to package anything we've got in FreeBSD pkg_add format.
Sounds like an offer to me! Sign that person up before they get away.
> I may need some porting help if the code's too Linux specific.
> However, what's BOSS? A DCL equivalent?
Yes, BOSS is a DCL equivalent. I doubt it is Linux specific, as it
seems to have been last modified in 1992, but it probably isn't
FreeBSD specific either for the same reason :-). Read
ftp://boss1.physik.uni-bonn.de/pub/dcl/ and you'll know about as much
as I do....
If you need porting help, feel free to ask (this list should be OK for
doing so, as far as I know).
> I think we need to take all the existing VMS-Like stuff and begin
> to get them into shape.
Sounds good to me. I haven't forgotten about TPU, or the ways in
which the VMS DIFF algorithm is different from the Unix diff (which
itself is at least somewhat different from the GNU diff), or any
number of other possible projects, but I am a big fan of starting with
what already exists.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:19:00 +0200
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980428202344.0075e54c@snake.srv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:23:44 -0600
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
At 03:30 PM 4/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>Yes, BOSS is a DCL equivalent. I doubt it is Linux specific, as it
>seems to have been last modified in 1992, but it probably isn't
>FreeBSD specific either for the same reason :-). Read
>ftp://boss1.physik.uni-bonn.de/pub/dcl/ and you'll know about as much
>as I do....
>
>If you need porting help, feel free to ask (this list should be OK for
>doing so, as far as I know).
Has anyone gotten BOSS to compile under Linux/BSD/???.
I haven't been able to figure out how to compile it.
>
>> I think we need to take all the existing VMS-Like stuff and begin
>> to get them into shape.
Nobody has collected much VMS-Like software yet.
I'd think that such things as RUNOFF, EDT, TECO, etc. would have
several clones already, which could easily be cleaned up and
brought up to date, and placed in some public area.
Anyone want to search out VMS software clones that already
exist, and at least post a pointer to them. (Any takers?)
I think that nothing will really get done until a critical
size of code is available (even it it all runs under Linux)
>
>Sounds good to me. I haven't forgotten about TPU, or the ways in
>which the VMS DIFF algorithm is different from the Unix diff (which
>itself is at least somewhat different from the GNU diff), or any
>number of other possible projects, but I am a big fan of starting with
>what already exists.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Handy kth@srv.net Accounting Software for
Software Solutions. Inc. VAX/VMS Computer Systems
Idaho Falls, Idaho
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:56:15 +0200
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980428155409.0090ea40@ebsmmfs001.ebs.ac.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:54:09 -0500
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: Pradeep.Bashyal@ebs.ac.com (Pradeep Bashyal - VIA)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: How about MkVMS ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980428105853.26218A-100000@rcclnk.sunyrockla nd.edu>
References: <199804281428.KAA28729@harvey.cyclic.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 11:09 AM 4/28/98 -0400, Andi wrote:
>But it doesn't run on my laptop.... and neither does Linux at this point
>(PowerPC Powerbook)....
Andy-
I believe the pre-release DR3 MkLinux runs on all PowerPC Powerbooks except
1400s, if that's any help. Checkout
ftp://ftp.mklinux.apple.com/pub/pre-DR3/STATUS
To All,
On the topic of MkLinux, Mklinux being a microkernel os (based on Mach
3.0 and running on both PowerPC and Intel), can't we start working with
Mklinux and start writing VMS
on top of Mach and have run it alongside MkLinux in a user space. We could
even call
it MkVMS. Since only Mach would need to be ported to other platforms, it
could theoretically
be ported to other platforms eg Alpha, Sparc etc.
I don't know where to start with this, but I thought it looked like a
plausible idea.
Similar work is being done by Apple with Rhapsody, running bluebox(Mac OS),
yellowbox(OpenStep), and BSD 4.4 on top of Mach. I believe the current Mach
version for
Rhapsody is 2.5.
I thought I would put some fresh idea into this stagnant project.
Comments are welcome.
Pradeep
"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently.
The ones that change the world!"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:09:56 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:08:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Stoffel <acs@campus.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: How about MkVMS ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980428155409.0090ea40@ebsmmfs001.ebs.ac.com>
To: free-vms@lp.se
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.980428170340.23583A-100000@rcclnk.sunyrockland.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Pradeep Bashyal - VIA wrote:
> At 11:09 AM 4/28/98 -0400, Andi wrote:
> >But it doesn't run on my laptop.... and neither does Linux at this point
> >(PowerPC Powerbook)....
> I believe the pre-release DR3 MkLinux runs on all PowerPC Powerbooks
Sort of.... I have a 5300cs and there's no SCSI or ethernet (PC Card)
support yet and I don't have room for the mkLinux distribution on my
powerbook without SCSI support.... but I've been contempalting the idea
for a while.....
> On the topic of MkLinux, Mklinux being a microkernel os (based on Mach
> 3.0 and running on both PowerPC and Intel), can't we start working with
> Mklinux and start writing VMS
The topic's been discussed in the past here with input from folks
at Digital who actually went down that path in the past.... I'm
not sure there was any real conclusion here.....
-Andy-
------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:52:51 +0200
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:53:25 -0400
From: "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@TMESIS.COM>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <009C5657.016E6CCA.3@TMESIS.COM>
Subject: RE: How about MkVMS ?
>"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers.
>The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently.
>The ones that change the world!"
:)
Back to the subject at hand. There existed a company in Washington State
circa 1985 called Wendin Associates, Inc. This company provided a product
which I beleive was called "PC-VMS" and provided C source and a "Toolbox"
for modifying the code and/or building your own O/S. Being that this Com-
pany was in Washington State, it and its resources (people, code, technology)
may have been absorbed into bgInc. However, if anybody remembers this Com-
pany and/or has this S/W lying about, this might serve as a starter for the
Free-VMS project. I remember seeing this thing run on a PC of the era (a
286/386?) an it looked to be rather complete or at least as complete as a
PC VMS could be.
I don't know if the source for this is available or if any licensing fees
or restrictions exists but this might be starting point for those of you
looking for a VMS-like O/S for the intel chips.
For references see:
http://www.gensw.com/PAGES/CORP/STEVEJ.HTM
I've tried calling Steve Jones to discuss this but he was not available.
I was given an e-mail address and hope to hear back from him on several
questions about the current status of PCVMS.
--
VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman@TMESIS.COM
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 00:25:40 +0200
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: How about MkVMS ?
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.98Apr29002517@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 28 Apr 1998 22:25:16 GMT
References: <199804281428.KAA28729@harvey.cyclic.com><3.0.5.32.19980428155409.0090ea40@ebsmm fs001.ebs.ac.com>
In-Reply-To: Pradeep.Bashyal@ebs.ac.com's message of Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:54:09 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In article <3.0.5.32.19980428155409.0090ea40@ebsmmfs001.ebs.ac.com> Pradeep.Bashyal@ebs.ac.com (Pradeep Bashyal - VIA) writes:
3.0 and running on both PowerPC and Intel), can't we start working
with Mklinux and start writing VMS on top of Mach and have run it
alongside MkLinux in a user space. We could even call it MkVMS.
[...]
I thought I would put some fresh idea into this stagnant project.
Comments are welcome.
:-) Building Free-VMS on top of Mach was among the original ideas, but
was very much discussed at the time. And yes, portability is an issue
here.
There is a startup implementation of VMS on top of Mach, and running
concurently with a Unix personality, made by Digital. This is something
I haven't followed up on very well lately, becaused I've been overwelmed
with things to do for about a year, but there was a project to get the
source for that project to DECUS, with a license allowing it to be used
in any kind of free project (as far as I understood things).
Glenn Everhardt (I hope I spelled that correctly), you were the one
talking about this. Has anything happened?
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 14:56:46 +0200
From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <199804291255.IAA23645@shell.monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: How about MkVMS ?
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:55:35 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <009C5657.016E6CCA.3@TMESIS.COM> from "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" at Apr 28, 98 05:53:25 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Back to the subject at hand. There existed a company in Washington State
> circa 1985 called Wendin Associates, Inc. This company provided a product
> which I beleive was called "PC-VMS" and provided C source and a "Toolbox"
> for modifying the code and/or building your own O/S. Being that this Com-
> pany was in Washington State, it and its resources (people, code, technology)
> may have been absorbed into bgInc. However, if anybody remembers this Com-
> pany and/or has this S/W lying about, this might serve as a starter for the
> Free-VMS project. I remember seeing this thing run on a PC of the era (a
> 286/386?) an it looked to be rather complete or at least as complete as a
> PC VMS could be.
>
> I don't know if the source for this is available or if any licensing fees
> or restrictions exists but this might be starting point for those of you
> looking for a VMS-like O/S for the intel chips.
>
> For references see:
>
> http://www.gensw.com/PAGES/CORP/STEVEJ.HTM
>
> I've tried calling Steve Jones to discuss this but he was not available.
> I was given an e-mail address and hope to hear back from him on several
> questions about the current status of PCVMS.
>
> --
> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman@TMESIS.COM
>
I've got a copy of PC-VMS that I'd be happy to make available to anyone
who wants to use it to work towards FreeVMS.
Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill/Carolyn Pechter | 17 Meredith Drive | Tinton Falls, New Jersey 07724 |
| 908-389-3592 | Save computing history, give an old geek old hardware. |
| pechter@shell.monmouth.com |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:08:51 +0200
Message-ID: <v03110703b16cd2490976@[140.186.88.220]>
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980428202344.0075e54c@snake.srv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:49:49 -0400
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: Dick Munroe <munroe@acornsw.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
You might want to start with the DECUS CDROMs as a source. We have them
online if you need access.
Dick Munroe
>At 03:30 PM 4/28/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>Yes, BOSS is a DCL equivalent. I doubt it is Linux specific, as it
>>seems to have been last modified in 1992, but it probably isn't
>>FreeBSD specific either for the same reason :-). Read
>>ftp://boss1.physik.uni-bonn.de/pub/dcl/ and you'll know about as much
>>as I do....
>>
>>If you need porting help, feel free to ask (this list should be OK for
>>doing so, as far as I know).
>
>Has anyone gotten BOSS to compile under Linux/BSD/???.
>I haven't been able to figure out how to compile it.
>
>>
>>> I think we need to take all the existing VMS-Like stuff and begin
>>> to get them into shape.
>
>Nobody has collected much VMS-Like software yet.
>
>I'd think that such things as RUNOFF, EDT, TECO, etc. would have
>several clones already, which could easily be cleaned up and
>brought up to date, and placed in some public area.
>
>Anyone want to search out VMS software clones that already
>exist, and at least post a pointer to them. (Any takers?)
>
>I think that nothing will really get done until a critical
>size of code is available (even it it all runs under Linux)
>
>>
>>Sounds good to me. I haven't forgotten about TPU, or the ways in
>>which the VMS DIFF algorithm is different from the Unix diff (which
>>itself is at least somewhat different from the GNU diff), or any
>>number of other possible projects, but I am a big fan of starting with
>>what already exists.
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Kevin Handy kth@srv.net Accounting Software for
>Software Solutions. Inc. VAX/VMS Computer Systems
>Idaho Falls, Idaho
Dick Munroe munroe@acornsw.com
Acorn Software, Inc. http://www.acornsw.com/
267 Cox St. (888) ACORNSW/(508) 568-1618
Hudson, Ma. 01749 Fax: (508) 562-1133
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:39:26 +0200
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: How about MkVMS ?
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.98Apr29153808@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 29 Apr 1998 13:38:08 GMT
References: <199804291255.IAA23645@shell.monmouth.com>
In-Reply-To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter's message of Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:55:35 -0400 (EDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In article <199804291255.IAA23645@shell.monmouth.com> Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com> writes:
I've got a copy of PC-VMS that I'd be happy to make available to anyone
who wants to use it to work towards FreeVMS.
Could be useful for inspiration if nothing else (it does come with
source, yes?).
Also, remember that FreeVMS is not meant to be PC-only (that's why I
want to push toward making it on top of Mach). I personally dream
about pissing off Sun bigots by running Free-VMS on Sparc :-).
--
R Levitte, Levitte Programming; Spannv. 38, I; S-168 35 Bromma; SWEDEN
Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cel: +46-708-20 09 64; No fax right now
PGP key fingerprint = A6 96 C0 34 3A 96 AA 6C B0 D5 9A DF D2 E9 9C 65
Check http://richard.levitte.org/ for my public key. bastard@bofh.se
"price, performance, quality. Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:53:28 +0200
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:02:12 -0400
Message-ID: <199804291902.PAA16873@harvey.cyclic.com>
From: Jim Kingdon <kingdonc@cyclic.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980428202344.0075e54c@snake.srv.net> (message from Kevin Handy on Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:23:44 -0600)
Subject: Re: FreeVMS Project - Future?
References: <1.5.4.32.19980428202344.0075e54c@snake.srv.net>
> Has anyone gotten BOSS to compile under Linux/BSD/???.
> I haven't been able to figure out how to compile it.
Uh oh. If Kevin Handy is having trouble, we better buckle our
seatbelts and prepare ourselves for a project.
I started downloading BOSS and trying to compile it. I got over a few
of the first problems, but didn't get much of it compiled.
My notes are at http://www.cyclic.com/~kingdon/vms/boss.html; I'd
encourage anyone who thinks they might be able to help to take a look.
Kevin? Want to comment about how far you got?