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Archive-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:14:38 +0100
Message-ID: <8C090F40DD50D211B9C70000F8307F261D3D39@FNOEXC1>
From: Teijo Forsell <Teijo.Forsell@digital.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: "'free-vms@lp.se'" <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:14:26 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Check out http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist
<http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist> 

It has OpenVMS V7.2 (VAX and Alpha!), Motif, TCP/IP and much more to go!


(Unless You knew this already of course.)

Best Regards,
Teijo
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:22:54 +0100
Message-ID: <19990302211028.A2320@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:10:28 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
References: <8C090F40DD50D211B9C70000F8307F261D3D39@FNOEXC1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <8C090F40DD50D211B9C70000F8307F261D3D39@FNOEXC1>; from Teijo Forsell on Tue, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:14:26PM -0000


--2fHTh5uZTiUOsy+g
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Ysgrifennodd Teijo.Forsell@digital.com ar Tue, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:14:26PM -=
0000:
>=20
> Check out http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist
> <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist>=20
>=20
> It has OpenVMS V7.2 (VAX and Alpha!), Motif, TCP/IP and much more to go!

Aah, but it's not Free, is it? :(

(Maybe good for learning on, though ..)

Diolch, Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 02:15:46 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990302191557.08472e00@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 19:15:57
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
In-Reply-To: <19990302211028.A2320@klamath.lilithfair.org>
References: <8C090F40DD50D211B9C70000F8307F261D3D39@FNOEXC1> <8C090F40DD50D211B9C70000F8307F261D3D39@FNOEXC1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi, Edward,

At 21:10 3/2/99 +0000, you wrote:
>Ysgrifennodd Teijo.Forsell@digital.com ar Tue, Mar 02, 1999 at 07:14:26PM
-0000:
>> 
>> Check out http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist
>> <http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist> 
>> 
>> It has OpenVMS V7.2 (VAX and Alpha!), Motif, TCP/IP and much more to go!
>
>Aah, but it's not Free, is it? :(
>
>(Maybe good for learning on, though ..)

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Free" (capitalized).

If you mean it's still not Open Source, don't hold your breath. If you are
already holding it, this is the time to call for help.

As of present, however, a Basic DECUS membership is still $0.00 US, and no
payment is requested for the hobbyist license. (I just registered for
layered products.) Of course, you still need to pay your ISP and your phone
bill, unless you're web surfing at work (does the boss know about this?).

Take a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/dfw_long.txt to see
how I ran afoul of the Hobbyist folks, then see dfw_resp.txt in that same
directory for my rebuttal. The only "real" costs involved are:

- Your PC
- The software on it (no "warez" for us!!!)
- the phone line to dial up your ISP
- your ISP account
- your time to administer your annual DECUS membership 
  and hobbyist license renewals

They do charge for media, but if you work in an OpenVMS shop, you should
already have access to the software distributions. Personally, I use the
freeware ZIP for OpenVMS to pack up the savesets, I FTP them to my
workstation (Intel-Win/9x), I bring my Zip drive from home and copy the
.ZIPs to the Zip disks, then I use my home PC to transfer the .ZIPs to the
VAXstation (over a serial link yet! - overnight usually works best) and use
the freeware UNZIP for OpenVMS to unpack the savesets.

FYI: When you register for Layered Products, you get 1-year PAKs (in .COM
file form) for ALL of the layered products listed on the Hobbyist web site!
Eudora says the message measures 23kB in size!

The new Hobbyist web pages give the recommendation that you should tap any
available source for software savesets, but stops short of saying that
anyone can post them on the Internet or a BBS. After all, POSSESSION of the
software is subject to a license from Digital/Compaq. This is clearly
marked on the CDs. Once you have the license - even a hobbyists license -
you are legally entitled to possess the software, whether you use it or not.

If anyone wants anything, give a yell. I can send Zip disks (for a price -
these are $10 each!! ...and hold roughly 98 MB formatted) or diskettes with
the .ZIPs split up into 1.2 MB chunks (again, for the cost of the media),
as well as DCL and .BAT procedures to re-assemble the chunks back into the
original .ZIP file(s). Be advised, however, that all U.S. laws pertaining
to software export will be obeyed TO THE LETTER! ...and I may ask you to
FAX or e-mail me evidence of your license (such as hard copy of a SHOW
LICENSE or LICENSE LIST display, or something else suitable).

I'll probably be adding a new web page on this topic. Watch
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/hobbyist/ for a link to a new
hobbyist support function.

My personal take on this:

Neither Compaq nor TCFKAD (The Company Formerly Known As Digital) will
resurrect the Emerald project when it's obvious that there's an OSS world
out there ready to do it for them, as evidenced by this list and other
comments, including repeated inquiries on comp.os.vms and at
http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/.

I think this is their bid to move OVMS into the same realm where Linux
currently rules.

...IMHO

David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 03:59:21 +0100
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:59:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19990302191557.08472e00@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302215045.5965A-100000@merlin>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, David J. Dachtera wrote:

>>Aah, but it's not Free, is it? :(
>>
>>(Maybe good for learning on, though ..)
>
>I'm not sure what you mean when you say "Free" (capitalized).
>
	As RMS would say, there's free and there's Free
(free=price,Free=freedom,yada yada yay,my god! i've become a
propaganda-spouting gnu fanatic!:)
>
>If you mean it's still not Open Source, don't hold your breath. If you are
>already holding it, this is the time to call for help.
>
>
>As of present, however, a Basic DECUS membership is still $0.00 US, and no
>payment is requested for the hobbyist license. (I just registered for
>layered products.) Of course, you still need to pay your ISP and your phone
>bill, unless you're web surfing at work (does the boss know about this?).
>
	I always though DECUS was DECU$ ... I looked into signing up for
it once, to get the hobbyist license (I think there was some chance of
me coming into possession of a wee little VAX ... nothing ever
happened.) I remember there being a fee for DECUS membership.
 >
>Take a look at http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/dfw_long.txt to see
>how I ran afoul of the Hobbyist folks, then see dfw_resp.txt in that same
>directory for my rebuttal. The only "real" costs involved are:
>
>- Your PC
>- The software on it (no "warez" for us!!!)	
	u g0t sUM k3wl W4RZ D00D??!@% :)
>- the phone line to dial up your ISP
>- your ISP account
>- your time to administer your annual DECUS membership 
>  and hobbyist license renewals
>
>They do charge for media, but if you work in an OpenVMS shop, you should
>already have access to the software distributions. Personally, I use the
>freeware ZIP for OpenVMS to pack up the savesets, I FTP them to my
>workstation (Intel-Win/9x), I bring my Zip drive from home and copy the
>..ZIPs to the Zip disks, then I use my home PC to transfer the .ZIPs to the
>VAXstation (over a serial link yet! - overnight usually works best) and use
>the freeware UNZIP for OpenVMS to unpack the savesets.
>
	ouch ... I just recently had to transfer an entire linux
distribution over a serial link (don't ask) ... i feel your pain ... 
>
>FYI: When you register for Layered Products, you get 1-year PAKs (in .COM
>file form) for ALL of the layered products listed on the Hobbyist web site!
>Eudora says the message measures 23kB in size!
>
	PAK? And BTW, .COM format is the equivalent of a shell script
(DCL), right?
>
>The new Hobbyist web pages give the recommendation that you should tap any
>available source for software savesets, but stops short of saying that
>anyone can post them on the Internet or a BBS. After all, POSSESSION of the
>software is subject to a license from Digital/Compaq. This is clearly
>marked on the CDs. Once you have the license - even a hobbyists license -
>you are legally entitled to possess the software, whether you use it or not.
>
	I've read this license. It sounds great, considering what it
	is licensing (a VERY proprietary system)
>
>If anyone wants anything, give a yell. I can send Zip disks (for a price -
>these are $10 each!! ...and hold roughly 98 MB formatted) or diskettes with
>the .ZIPs split up into 1.2 MB chunks (again, for the cost of the media),
>as well as DCL and .BAT procedures to re-assemble the chunks back into the
>original .ZIP file(s). Be advised, however, that all U.S. laws pertaining
>to software export will be obeyed TO THE LETTER! ...and I may ask you to
>FAX or e-mail me evidence of your license (such as hard copy of a SHOW
>LICENSE or LICENSE LIST display, or something else suitable).
>
	Could you put this up for FTP? You could give (ftp-only, of
course) accounts (or just one account with passwoord) to people who
prove themselves to be legally entitled to it? I find this much easier
than dealing with media (floppy disks ... aren't those those plastic
thingies we used before networking?:)
>
>I'll probably be adding a new web page on this topic. Watch
>http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/hobbyist/ for a link to a new
>hobbyist support function.
>
>My personal take on this:
>
>Neither Compaq nor TCFKAD (The Company Formerly Known As Digital) will
>resurrect the Emerald project when it's obvious that there's an OSS world
>out there ready to do it for them, as evidenced by this list and other
>comments, including repeated inquiries on comp.os.vms and at
>http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/.
>
	Meaning us ...
>
>I think this is their bid to move OVMS into the same realm where Linux
>currently rules.
>
>....IMHO
>
>David J. Dachtera
>dba DJE Systems
>http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/
>

____________________________
Regards, 
Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>

PGP Public Key:		finger noahp@www.ultranet.com

``A distributed system is one on which I can't do my work because some
  machine I never heard of has crashed'' -- Leslie Lamport, author of LaTeX


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:39:14 +0100
From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <199903031238.HAA11358@shell.monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:38:52 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302215045.5965A-100000@merlin> from "Noah Paul" at Mar 2, 99 09:59:06 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> 
> 
> On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, David J. Dachtera wrote:
> 
> >
> >As of present, however, a Basic DECUS membership is still $0.00 US, and no
> >payment is requested for the hobbyist license. (I just registered for
> >layered products.) Of course, you still need to pay your ISP and your phone
> >bill, unless you're web surfing at work (does the boss know about this?).
> >
> 	I always though DECUS was DECU$ ... I looked into signing up for
> it once, to get the hobbyist license (I think there was some chance of
> me coming into possession of a wee little VAX ... nothing ever
> happened.) I remember there being a fee for DECUS membership.
>  >

They made a fee for the notes access and publications (which used to
be free, but the membership is still free and that means the hobbyist
license is free.

Bill

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:52:20 +0100
From: thomasgd@omc.bt.co.uk (Greg Thomas)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:51:07 GMT
Message-ID: <36df3e3d.17287265@relay.axion.bt.co.uk>
References: <199903031238.HAA11358@shell.monmouth.com>
In-Reply-To: <199903031238.HAA11358@shell.monmouth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On Wed, 3 Mar 1999 07:38:52 -0500 (EST), Bill/Carolyn Pechter
<pechter@shell.monmouth.com> wrote:

>but the membership is still free and that means the hobbyist
>license is free.

Can non US-ians join the US DECUS?

Greg
-- 
This post represents the views of the author and does
not necessarily accurately represent the views of BT.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:46:17 +0100
Date: Wed,  3 Mar 1999 15:46:11 +0100
Message-ID: <2991-Wed03Mar1999154611+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <36df3e3d.17287265@relay.axion.bt.co.uk> (thomasgd@omc.bt.co.uk)
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

   Can non US-ians join the US DECUS?

Or DECUS Holland, or DECUS Switzerland?  :-)

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:59:27 +0100
From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter <pechter@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <199903031458.JAA03463@shell.monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:58:54 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <2991-Wed03Mar1999154611+0100-levitte@lp.se> from "Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker" at Mar 3, 99 03:46:11 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> 
>    Can non US-ians join the US DECUS?
> 
> Or DECUS Holland, or DECUS Switzerland?  :-)

I wonder if a mailbox at mailboxes.etc (a mail forwarder) would get
through the membership application.

Bill


+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        |
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  |
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:02:39 +0100
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:58:04 -0800 (PST)
From: "vox/fax:719.488.1652" <LBOHAN@dbc.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
To: levitte@lp.se
CC: FREE-VMS@LP.SE
Message-ID: <01J8DWUHMA1U90OLUA@dbc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

 
>>    Can non US-ians join the US DECUS?
 > Or DECUS Holland, or DECUS Switzerland?  :-)

below, snipped from a few msgs posted to comp.os.vms, by D. Cathey:

> Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40 wrote:
>> Nice, very nice !! I hope the programm will be available soon also in Europe.
>> Many people will now be able to recompile freewares, I think it is better.
>
>	Have your DECUS Chapter contact me, or John Wisniewski, and
>	we can get started on it.
>...

>...
>	We're ready to support them (and other DECUS Chapters),
>	but we need to be able to validate some DECUS membership before
>	we can issue licenses.
>...		

>	- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>	David L. Cathey                      |Inet: davidc@montagar.com
>	Montagar Software Concepts           |Fone: (972)-578-5036
>	P. O. Box 260772, Plano, TX 75026    |http://www.montagar.com
>	Postmaster, Hostmaster, Webmaster    |http://www.whiteice.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:46:11 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:21:59 -0600
Message-ID: <0001A5A8.C21492@advocatehealth.com>
From: David.Dachtera@advocatehealth.com (David Dachtera)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re[2]: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

   * HEART-FELT SIGH * 
   
   FWIW: I use my DJE Systems address for DECUS. See:
   
   http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/contact.html
   
   For US DECUS Membership Info., see:
   
   http://www.decus.org/
   
   ...and in response to Noah's inquiry re: FTP, as I said: 
   the hobbyist site info. stops just short of saying 
   anything about making the distributions publicly 
   available. Being aware of an underground that can hack 
   OpenVMS licenses, I would hesitate to put these up on the 
   'net.
   
   I may be looking into making VMS-readable CD-Rs in order 
   to supplement the supply of them, over and above what 
   DFWLUG may pre-order and keep in stock. Unlike them, I 
   could then make customized CD distributions on demand.
   
   Last time I was at Sam's Club (a U.S. retail mass 
   distributor, off-shoot of the Wal-Mart chain started by 
   Sam Walton), they were selling Verbatim CD-R disks in a 
   10-pack for $17 (U.S.) or so. That makes the $35 
   requested by DFWLUG a bit exhorbitant - guess they hold 
   the same views of supply and demand as DEC/Compaq.
   
   David J. Dachtera
   dba DJE Systems
   http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist V2.0
Author:  Free-VMS@lp.se at PO_EXTERNET
Date:    3/3/99 8:58 AM


> 
>    Can non US-ians join the US DECUS? 
> 
> Or DECUS Holland, or DECUS Switzerland?  :-)
   
I wonder if a mailbox at mailboxes.etc (a mail forwarder) would get 
through the membership application.
   
Bill
   
   
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter    |        pechter@shell.monmouth.com        | 
|   Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in  | 
|  a James Bond movie              -- Dennis Miller                         | 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:59:02 +0100
Message-ID: <19990303205840.A2210@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:58:40 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: Get started. NOW!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary=tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT


--tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT
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Hyl=F4.

Ok, look. We have starlet, create and some mail. What else is there?

Not much.

One thing in particular missing?

A kernel.

We need to start work on a kernel. Whatever base we use - Mach, Linux, it
doesn't matter. We just have to agree on it, and then start work. All the
userland programs in the world are useless without a kernel.=20

I propose that we decide, by the end of next week, the kernel to use. Then,=
 we
start working on it. Just like that. Once we have it booting, we can start
moving starlet onto it, and adding some things, but first we need a kernel.

I cannot stress this enough. Free-VMS is *not going to happen* unless we do
something.

Having said that, I propose we use OpenBSD as the kernel base.

OpenBSD has support for a lot of archs, including vax and alpha :) It has a
long history, from 1BSD up to 4BSD, through NetBSD and to the present day. =
It
is technically good, and should be easy enough to adapt to support what we
need. (Obviously a lot of the UNIXy stuff will have to go).

Comments appreciated.

Diolch, Edward.

--tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT
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--tKW2IUtsqtDRztdT--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:00:37 +0100
Message-ID: <19990303210027.B2210@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:00:27 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: Starlet License
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary=jq0ap7NbKX2Kqbes


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Hyl=F4.

I don't have the email for the starlet maintainer, so I'm hoping he reads
this list :) Starlet doesn't seem to have a license. I'd like to package it
for Debian, but I can't really do that ATM. It would be good if you could G=
PL
it, or similar.

Diolch, Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:20:32 +0100
Message-ID: <36DDAA88.485BE6E0@srv.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:32:56 -0700
From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Starlet License
References: <19990303210027.B2210@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Edward John M. Brocklesby wrote:
>=20
> Hyl=F4.
>=20
> I don't have the email for the starlet maintainer, so I'm hoping he rea=
ds
> this list :) Starlet doesn't seem to have a license. I'd like to packag=
e it
> for Debian, but I can't really do that ATM. It would be good if you cou=
ld GPL
> it, or similar.

I'm guessing that you mean me :) (If you are talking about all the STR$
routines
and whatever else I've thrown in there)

I never put a license on it because while I was playing around with it,
nobody
could decide on which license to use. I don't think I ever saw that
issue
resolved either. If you want to write up some licensing files, I'll drop
them into what I have.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:23:18 +0100
Message-ID: <19990304212305.A262@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:23:05 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Starlet License
References: <19990303210027.B2210@klamath.lilithfair.org> <36DDAA88.485BE6E0@srv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In-Reply-To: <36DDAA88.485BE6E0@srv.net>; from Kevin Handy on Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 02:32:56PM -0700


--ZGiS0Q5IWpPtfppv
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Ysgrifennodd kth@srv.net ar Wed, Mar 03, 1999 at 02:32:56PM -0700:
> I'm guessing that you mean me :) (If you are talking about all the STR$
> routines
> and whatever else I've thrown in there)

That would be the one :)

> I never put a license on it because while I was playing around with it,
> nobody
> could decide on which license to use. I don't think I ever saw that
> issue
> resolved either. If you want to write up some licensing files, I'll drop
> them into what I have.

It would be nice if you could GPL it. If you don't have a copy of the GPL, I
can send you one.

Diolch, Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:28:52 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990305182939.4bdf0696@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 18:29:39
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Get started. NOW!
In-Reply-To: <19990303205840.A2210@klamath.lilithfair.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 20:58 3/3/99 +0000, Edward John M. Brocklesby wrote:
>All the
>userland programs in the world are useless without a kernel. 

Well...

Not everyone is a "kernel hacker". I'd hardly list myself as one, anyway.

I wouldn't want folks to feel left out for lack of skill. Besides, when a
kernel does finally appear, we'll need some command programs to make the
CLI work. Those can be built on real VMS now, and linked against and tested
with the new kernel and run-times when they do finally make their debut.

I don't really consider command programs to be "userland" software, anyway.
They're more system stuff than anything, IMO.

The command programs that really need to wait for the kernel are those
which facilitate the great bulk of the SET commands, since they modify data
structures in user space directly.

Something to consider...

David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 01:20:15 +0100
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:18:30 +0300
From: Anton Konashenok <kona@mail.cl.spb.ru>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <9137.990307@mail.cl.spb.ru>
X-MX-Warning:   Warning -- Invalid "To" header.
To: David J. Dachtera <Free-VMS@lp.se>
Subject: Re[2]: Get started. NOW!
References: <3.0.3.16.19990305182939.4bdf0696@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

At 20:58 3/3/99 +0000, Edward John M. Brocklesby wrote:
>All the
>userland programs in the world are useless without a kernel.
...and suggested to use a flavour of BSD.

I am afraid it's been said on this list a few times already --
emulating VMS user interface and libraries is not quite our goal. What
we wanted to do -- and I hope Richard will confirm it -- was to
replicate the way VMS was built (and maybe even compensate some of its
deficiencies in a compatible way). I didn't want to announce it on the
list, but I guess after this challenge I'll have to -- I am starting
to do some semblance of a kernel. Don't hold your breath, though;
don't even expect any progress reports anytime soon. However, I am
currently separated (physically) from my own VAXen, so I will greatly
appreciate a telnettable VMS account on a VAX... (Richard, I e-mailed
you privately, but where are you?)
My plan is to start from the process and time management part of the
kernel (for definitions go to Goldenberg and Kenah's "VAX/VMS
Internals and Data Structures") with some very rudimentary memory
management and primitive I/O, and the development platform will be
Intel 80x86. If anyone here wants to volunteer in
- doing paging code -- first for Intel, then for other platforms;
- doing filesystem drivers ("ACPs") for a few different filesystems;
- doing platform-dependent part of task switching code for other
platforms (by the way, what other platforms have hardware support for
multitasking?), then please speak up!

NB: This is my last (or about last) message to this list from this
address. For all private mailings please use the address below.

Anton Konashenok                        mailto:alter-ego@mail.ru


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:05:51 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990306200351.4bcf303a@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 20:03:51
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Get started. NOW!
In-Reply-To: <9137.990307@mail.cl.spb.ru>
References: <3.0.3.16.19990305182939.4bdf0696@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:18 3/7/99 +0300, Anton Konashenok wrote:
>emulating VMS user interface and libraries is not quite our goal.

Very true.

In another thread, we had discussed sort of "gutting" a kernel - Linux,
*BSD or whatever - and replacing the UN*Xly filesystem code with ODS-2 code
instead. That way, we'd have a known working kernel, multi-platform support
and the great bulk of the kernel hacking already done.

By the way, for everyone else - ODS-2 is described in some detail in the
System Manager's Manual. This is a two-volume manual. I'll be distilling
those two .PS file and uploading them to Richard very soon. 

Stay tuned.

David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 05:25:01 +0100
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 07:20:07 +0300
From: Anton Konashenok <kona@mail.cl.spb.ru>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <2305.990307@mail.ru>
X-MX-Warning:   Warning -- Invalid "To" header.
To: David J. Dachtera <Free-VMS@lp.se>
Subject: Re[4]: Get started. NOW!
References: <3.0.3.16.19990306200351.4bcf303a@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> In another thread, we had discussed sort of "gutting" a kernel - Linux,
> *BSD or whatever - and replacing the UN*Xly filesystem code with ODS-2 code
> instead. That way, we'd have a known working kernel, multi-platform support
> and the great bulk of the kernel hacking already done.

In my previous posting I actually meant that such kind of kernel would
only be a convenient substrate for the outer parts of the system, but
not a true VMS-like kernel we are striving to have. It will certainly
be a very good interim solution, but _ideally_ it should eventually be
replaced by a "high performance kernel". With enough volunteers, both
versions could be under development simultaneously; I personally will
go for the latter, as I found some good building blocks available
under LGPL or in public domain.

> By the way, for everyone else - ODS-2 is described in some detail in the
> System Manager's Manual. This is a two-volume manual. I'll be distilling
> those two .PS file and uploading them to Richard very soon.

Anyone willing to write PRIMITIVE_IO for ODS-2, maybe just a read-only
driver? For now, much as I am ashamed of it :-), I will most likely
build the kernel prototype on FAT16 -- the code is easily available,
and this way I'll be able to keep the whole project on one hard disk
partition in my PC.

 Anton                            mailto:alter-ego@mail.ru


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:36:54 +0100
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:36:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: "David J. Dachtera" <Free-VMS@lp.se>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: Get started. NOW!
In-Reply-To: <2305.990307@mail.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990307113551.16318A-100000@merlin>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

ftp://146.114.234.58/pub/VMS 
contains an ODS2 driver for Linux

____________________________
Regards, 
Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
PGP Public Key:		finger noahp@www.ultranet.com

``A distributed system is one on which I can't do my work because some
  machine I never heard of has crashed'' -- Leslie Lamport, author of LaTeX


On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Anton Konashenok wrote:

>> In another thread, we had discussed sort of "gutting" a kernel - Linux,
>> *BSD or whatever - and replacing the UN*Xly filesystem code with ODS-2 code
>> instead. That way, we'd have a known working kernel, multi-platform support
>> and the great bulk of the kernel hacking already done.
>
>In my previous posting I actually meant that such kind of kernel would
>only be a convenient substrate for the outer parts of the system, but
>not a true VMS-like kernel we are striving to have. It will certainly
>be a very good interim solution, but _ideally_ it should eventually be
>replaced by a "high performance kernel". With enough volunteers, both
>versions could be under development simultaneously; I personally will
>go for the latter, as I found some good building blocks available
>under LGPL or in public domain.
>
>> By the way, for everyone else - ODS-2 is described in some detail in the
>> System Manager's Manual. This is a two-volume manual. I'll be distilling
>> those two .PS file and uploading them to Richard very soon.
>
>Anyone willing to write PRIMITIVE_IO for ODS-2, maybe just a read-only
>driver? For now, much as I am ashamed of it :-), I will most likely
>build the kernel prototype on FAT16 -- the code is easily available,
>and this way I'll be able to keep the whole project on one hard disk
>partition in my PC.
>
> Anton                            mailto:alter-ego@mail.ru
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:50:27 +0100
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:43:56 +0000
From: Patrick Caulfield <patrick@pandh.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: Linux as a bootstrap OS
Message-ID: <19990315194356.A1215@pandh.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I've only just joined this mailing list but I've been lurking over the archives
and I'd like to add a vote for Linux as the "bootstrap" OS for Free-VMS.

OK, It doesn't have a VAX port, and is unlikely to in the forseeable future, but
then REAL VMS runs on VAXs...

There are some good points in its favour:

1. I'm familiar with it :-^

2. It has a good architecture for plugging in filesystems and the like
   ('scuse my ignorance of the BSDs here)

3. It has a DECnet protcol stack available with applications - I know, I'm
   writing them! see http://www.dreamtime.org/decnet.

Patrick
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:48:44 +0100
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:46:49 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <99031610464983@star.zko.dec.com>
From: parke@star.zko.dec.com (Pati die.)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Linux as a bootstrap OS

Excuse me?

"Real" VMS runs on Both VAXen and Alphas.   In fact, Alpha is a little newer in
some of the features (GALAXY etc) making it a "bit more real"  ?   8-)

Bill
Former VMS Devo

COMPAQ Computer
The opinions and infractions presented here are my own only and not
those of my company.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:20:35 +0100
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:09:23 +0000
From: Patrick Caulfield <patrick@pandh.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Linux as a bootstrap OS
Message-ID: <19990316180923.A1923@pandh.demon.co.uk>
References: <99031610464983@star.zko.dec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In-Reply-To: <99031610464983@star.zko.dec.com>; from Pati die. on Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:46:49AM -0500

On Tue, Mar 16, 1999 at 10:46:49AM -0500, Pati die. wrote:
> Excuse me?
> 
> "Real" VMS runs on Both VAXen and Alphas.   In fact, Alpha is a little newer in
> some of the features (GALAXY etc) making it a "bit more real"  ?   8-)
 
I think I knew that.

Your point is?

My point was that the lack of a VAX/Linux port was not really a problem.

Patrick

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 22:53:09 +0100
Message-ID: <36F0273D.AAF4D4D@srv.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:05:49 -0700
From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Free-VMS@lp.se" <Free-VMS@lp.se>
Subject: Licensing
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I'm currently starting to put some licensing on all of
the junk I've thrown into the starlet library, and the
Basic compiler. I'm planning on the LGPL unless there
is a massive outcry.

Should I just assign the copyright to the FSP (GNU folks),
or should there be another entity that they be assigned to,
or should I claim the copyright myself?

There's no real FreeVMS consortum, as I understand it,
so I don't think I can assign it to that.

It would also need to be approved by Paul Nankervis,
due to the use of his date routines.

Also, does anyone have other functions to throw into
the library while I'm working on it? It's your chance
to9 get published here.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 16:05:05 +0100
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:59:36 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <99031809593614@star.zko.dec.com>
From: parke@star.zko.dec.com (Pati die.)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: FREE-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing

>From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>
>Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
>Organization: Software Solutions, Inc
>To: "Free-VMS@lp.se" <Free-VMS@lp.se>
>Subject: Licensing
>
>I'm currently starting to put some licensing on all of
>the junk I've thrown into the starlet library, and the
>Basic compiler. I'm planning on the LGPL unless there
>is a massive outcry.
>
>Should I just assign the copyright to the FSP (GNU folks),
>or should there be another entity that they be assigned to,
>or should I claim the copyright myself?
>
Given the current Broo-haha going on with Stallman complaining that they are
not calling Linux GNU/Linux (and a subsequent analysis by Suse that seems
to show less that 25% GNU content in Linux), I would lean away from assining
the copyright to FSF.   If you were to use their licensing (or whatever
the group here decides on) and hold the copyright until an entity exists
then assign it, that would probably cover all bases.

Becides, what would Richard and friends do with a "VMS thinky" 8-)

>There's no real FreeVMS consortum, as I understand it,
>so I don't think I can assign it to that.
>
>It would also need to be approved by Paul Nankervis,
>due to the use of his date routines.
>
>Also, does anyone have other functions to throw into
>the library while I'm working on it? It's your chance
>to9 get published here.


Bill Parke
   COMPAQ Computer Corp.  Spit Brook Rd, Nashua NH
   All opinions expressed here are my own and do not reflect my
   employer.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:04:51 +0100
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:04:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing
In-Reply-To: <99031809593614@star.zko.dec.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990318180300.18900A-100000@merlin>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

How about this ....

	Copyright (C) 1999 by Joe Bloggs and the Free-VMS Group.
	To be distributed only under the GNU general Public License.
	Email comments to jbloggs@foo.net or subscribe to the
	Free-VmS mailing list, Free-VMS@lp.se


____________________________
Regards, 
Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
PGP Public Key:		finger noahp@www.ultranet.com

``A distributed system is one on which I can't do my work because some
  machine I never heard of has crashed'' -- Leslie Lamport, author of LaTeX


On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Pati die. wrote:

>>From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>
>>Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
>>Organization: Software Solutions, Inc
>>To: "Free-VMS@lp.se" <Free-VMS@lp.se>
>>Subject: Licensing
>>
>>I'm currently starting to put some licensing on all of
>>the junk I've thrown into the starlet library, and the
>>Basic compiler. I'm planning on the LGPL unless there
>>is a massive outcry.
>>
>>Should I just assign the copyright to the FSP (GNU folks),
>>or should there be another entity that they be assigned to,
>>or should I claim the copyright myself?
>>
>Given the current Broo-haha going on with Stallman complaining that they are
>not calling Linux GNU/Linux (and a subsequent analysis by Suse that seems
>to show less that 25% GNU content in Linux), I would lean away from assining
>the copyright to FSF.   If you were to use their licensing (or whatever
>the group here decides on) and hold the copyright until an entity exists
>then assign it, that would probably cover all bases.
>
>Becides, what would Richard and friends do with a "VMS thinky" 8-)
>
>>There's no real FreeVMS consortum, as I understand it,
>>so I don't think I can assign it to that.
>>
>>It would also need to be approved by Paul Nankervis,
>>due to the use of his date routines.
>>
>>Also, does anyone have other functions to throw into
>>the library while I'm working on it? It's your chance
>>to9 get published here.
>
>
>Bill Parke
>   COMPAQ Computer Corp.  Spit Brook Rd, Nashua NH
>   All opinions expressed here are my own and do not reflect my
>   employer.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 01:33:44 +0100
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: Licensing
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.99Mar19012909@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 19 Mar 1999 00:29:08 GMT
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990318180300.18900A-100000@merlin>
In-Reply-To: Noah Paul's message of Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:04:20 -0500 (EST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <Pine.LNX.3.96.990318180300.18900A-100000@merlin> Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net> writes:

   How about this ....

	   Copyright (C) 1999 by Joe Bloggs and the Free-VMS Group.
	   To be distributed only under the GNU general Public License.
	   Email comments to jbloggs@foo.net or subscribe to the
	   Free-VMS mailing list, Free-VMS@lp.se

I kind of like that, actually.  I wonder, however, what the "Free-VMS
Group" should really refer to, but that may be solved at a later time.

I've compiled a page about my thoughts on licensing.  I haven't set
anything in stone yet, so please read it and come back with your
opinions.

http://www.free-vms.org/static/licensing/ (there's a pretty obvious
link from the main page to this).

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:49:17 +0100
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Official CVS repository
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.99Mar19163517@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 19 Mar 1999 15:35:16 GMT
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I've finally done all the things I want to do with the CVS repository
I set up long ago for Free-VMS.  The only thing I have to finish is
the instructions at http://www.free-vms.org/static/cvs/.  However, for
those who already know CVS, or are willing to read the manuals (there
are links to them), it shouldn't be too difficult.  Also, I just
installed cvsweb, so the CVS repository is now viewable over the web:

   http://www.stacken.kth.se/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/?cvsroot=Free-VMS

As you will see when (if) you look is that I've inserted all the
Free-VMS-related source that I could find easily:

	vmsbackup 4.1.1		programs/backup/
	Kevin's str library	authors/kevin/str/
	Paul's time routines	authors/paulnank/vms-time/
	Paul's ODS-2 program	authors/paulnank/ODS2/

I'm not completely sure about the directory organisation, but it's
safe for anyone to assume that ha or she can create a directory under
authors/ and put the files there.  At some point, the files will then
be moved to the other directories in whatever way we find appropriate.

Right now, only I and Noah have write access to the repository.  The
reason is that only Noah has requested write access yet.  If you want
one too, please tell me so I can give you a password (privately, of
course).  Those I see as natural candidates right away are the authors
of the stuff that I've inserted 'til now.



Right now, I'm looking into the new work that has been done on HURD
and GNU mach together with the Debian folks and others.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:31:50 +0100
Message-ID: <19990319225157.B737@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 22:51:57 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990318180300.18900A-100000@merlin> <LEVITTE.99Mar19012909@nic.bofh.se>
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In-Reply-To: <LEVITTE.99Mar19012909@nic.bofh.se>; from Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker on Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:29:08AM +0000


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Ysgrifennodd levitte@lp.se ar Fri, Mar 19, 1999 at 12:29:08AM +0000:
> I kind of like that, actually.  I wonder, however, what the "Free-VMS
> Group" should really refer to, but that may be solved at a later time.

Presumably all the people who develop for Free-VMS.

> http://www.free-vms.org/static/licensing/ (there's a pretty obvious
> link from the main page to this).

WWW.Free-VMS.ORG seems to be down.

Diolch, Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:49:00 +0100
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 01:48:34 +0100
Message-ID: <4107-Sat20Mar1999014834+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <19990319225157.B737@klamath.lilithfair.org> (ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk)
Subject: Re: Licensing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

   WWW.Free-VMS.ORG seems to be down.

Not when I reach out for it...  But, it may be slow...  What does a
traceroute give you?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:18:00 +0100
From: Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <14067.12153.962594.25475@bogon.kjsl.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:17:45 -0800 (PST)
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing
In-Reply-To: <4107-Sat20Mar1999014834+0100-levitte@lp.se>
References: <19990319225157.B737@klamath.lilithfair.org> <4107-Sat20Mar1999014834+0100-levitte@lp.se>

Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker writes:
 >    WWW.Free-VMS.ORG seems to be down.
 > 
 > Not when I reach out for it...  But, it may be slow...  What does a
 > traceroute give you?

	I registered freevms.org. How about I set up a stateside mirror?

-jav
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:07:55 +0100
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 11:07:39 +0100
Message-ID: <4670-Sat20Mar1999110738+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <14067.12153.962594.25475@bogon.kjsl.com> (message from Javier Henderson on Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:17:45 -0800 (PST))
Subject: Re: Licensing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

	   I registered freevms.org. How about I set up a stateside mirror?

How amusing.  Did you register it just to mirror?  Anyway, sure, go
ahead!

Don't be surprised if you get some loose links, BTW.  I did a
reorganisation of the pages once, but I have a pointer to the old pages
from the current ones, and since some files have been moved from there,
the links to them do not really work.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:57:30 +0100
From: Javier Henderson <javier@KJSL.COM>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <14067.46920.692532.760818@bogon.kjsl.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 06:57:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing
In-Reply-To: <4670-Sat20Mar1999110738+0100-levitte@lp.se>
References: <14067.12153.962594.25475@bogon.kjsl.com> <4670-Sat20Mar1999110738+0100-levitte@lp.se>

Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker writes:

 > How amusing.  Did you register it just to mirror?  Anyway, sure, go
 > ahead!

	Mirror it, and just to keep it within the "group", so to
speak.

-jav
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 16:37:40 +0100
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:37:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing
In-Reply-To: <14067.12153.962594.25475@bogon.kjsl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990320103635.9647A-100000@merlin>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sounds good. However, 'us.free-vms.org' would have been (a) much cheaper
and (b) a bit less confusing ...

____________________________
Regards, 
Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
PGP Public Key:		finger noahp@www.ultranet.com

``A distributed system is one on which I can't do my work because some
  machine I never heard of has crashed'' -- Leslie Lamport, author of LaTeX


On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Javier Henderson wrote:

>Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker writes:
> >    WWW.Free-VMS.ORG seems to be down.
> > 
> > Not when I reach out for it...  But, it may be slow...  What does a
> > traceroute give you?
>
>	I registered freevms.org. How about I set up a stateside mirror?
>
>-jav
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:12:34 +0100
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:12:21 +0100
Message-ID: <4670-Sat20Mar1999181221+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990320103635.9647A-100000@merlin> (message from Noah Paul on Sat, 20 Mar 1999 10:37:04 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: Licensing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

   Sounds good. However, 'us.free-vms.org' would have been (a) much cheaper
   and (b) a bit less confusing ...

:-)  There's nothing stopping a zone-file from being freevms.org and
us.free-vms.org at the same time, unless that file is poorly made...

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:14:06 +0100
Message-ID: <19990318201935.C1293@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:19:35 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Licensing
References: <36F0273D.AAF4D4D@srv.net>
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In-Reply-To: <36F0273D.AAF4D4D@srv.net>; from Kevin Handy on Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 03:05:49PM -0700


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Ysgrifennodd kth@srv.net ar Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 03:05:49PM -0700:
> I'm currently starting to put some licensing on all of
> the junk I've thrown into the starlet library, and the
> Basic compiler. I'm planning on the LGPL unless there
> is a massive outcry.

Beware that the LGPL allows your work to be linked against non-free code. I'd
recommend that you dual license it under both the Artistic and GPL licenses.

Diolch, Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:16:13 +0100
Sender: john
Message-ID: <36F4AAA0.CADBA808@guntersville.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 02:15:28 -0600
From: "John C. Ellingboe" <john@guntersville.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: FreeVMS - Mailing List Input <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: [Fwd: VAX / VMS Manuals etc..]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B9C18440E9F69113A646F72D"

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Hey,

Anyone in England that needs VAX/VMS manuals.  I just happened to see
this on the vmsnet.pdp-11 news group.  

John
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Path: news.hiwaay.net!spamkiller1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!195.252.142.5!newsfeed.tli.de!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!planet-tharg.demon.co.uk!tb
Message-ID: <3$oznCAhjR22Ewkx@planet-tharg.demon.co.uk>
From: "Tim. Bluck." <tb@oes-ee.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
Subject: VAX / VMS Manuals etc..
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:22:25 +0000
Organization: O.E.S. Electronics Engineers.
NNTP-Posting-Host: planet-tharg.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: planet-tharg.demon.co.uk:212.229.58.50
X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 920296582 nnrp-02:3920 NO-IDENT planet-tharg.demon.co.uk:212.229.58.50
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MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Newsreader: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 <g2k83c45w3$XeOnMEtH6P0Xg0v>


Hello.
        I have A whole load of Dec vax / vms / basic / all-in-one.....
manuals, If anybody would like any of them, or if there's any interest
at all, I'll try to post a list of what I have..

They're free, You just pay for the postage, or collect.  I'm in North
Kent, England.  And I can be reached at the following e-mail address.

tb@planet-tharg.demon.co.uk

Many thanks.
Tim.R.Bluck.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:07:13 +0100
Message-ID: <19990321202908.A242@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 20:29:08 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: UK Mirror
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hyl=F4.

Now that everyone's mirroring the website, I could host a UK mirror. We hav=
e a
2mpbs line shared between the entire building, but it should be enough for a
low-bandwidth network. The box with the web server does only firewalling and
IRC (OpenProjectsNet) at the moment, so it's not very loaded.=20

An entry as, for example, www.uk.free-vms.org -> 62.232.6.5x (for x as an
unused IP), would be good, or is it possible to do it without using another
IP? (or even 62.232.6.53/www.free-vms.org/, but that's not very nice).

Comments?

Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:17:07 +0100
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: Licensing
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.99Mar22000346@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 21 Mar 1999 23:03:43 GMT
References: <36F0273D.AAF4D4D@srv.net> <19990318201935.C1293@klamath.lilithfair.org>
In-Reply-To: "Edward John M. Brocklesby"'s message of Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:19:35 +0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <19990318201935.C1293@klamath.lilithfair.org> "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk> writes:

   Ysgrifennodd kth@srv.net ar Wed, Mar 17, 1999 at 03:05:49PM -0700:
   > I'm currently starting to put some licensing on all of
   > the junk I've thrown into the starlet library, and the
   > Basic compiler. I'm planning on the LGPL unless there
   > is a massive outcry.

   Beware that the LGPL allows your work to be linked against non-free
   code.

Which may be a good or a bad thing, depending on the beliefs of the
author in question.

   I'd recommend that you dual license it under both the Artistic and
   GPL licenses.

I need to reread the Artistic license.  Last time I did (in a state of
great fatigue...) I didn't quite grasp it, and thought it was somewhat
tightly couple with Perl or at least with language interpreters,
something a library is definitely not.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:56:47 +0100
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:56:28 +0100
Message-ID: <3595-Mon22Mar1999005628+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <19990321202908.A242@klamath.lilithfair.org> (ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk)
Subject: Re: UK Mirror
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

   Hylä.

The same to you.  That's Finnish, isn't it?

   Now that everyone's mirroring the website, I could host a UK mirror.

*LOL* penguin effect?

   An entry as, for example, www.uk.free-vms.org -> 62.232.6.5x (for x as
   an unused IP), would be good, or is it possible to do it without using
   another IP?

That completely depends on your web server.  Today, all clients will send
a "Host: www.foo.bar" header together with the HTTP request, so if your
server can catch that kind of request, it should work properly.  If you
run the OSU http server ro Apache, I can tell you how to set up such a
thing.

   (or even 62.232.6.53/www.free-vms.org/, but that's not very nice).

No.  Ugly, ugly, let's avoid that if we can.

BTW, is there a reason that IP address is nameless?

Anyway, I can set up a www.uk.free-vms.org whenever you wish.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 20:26:22 +0100
Message-ID: <19990322192605.A281@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 19:26:05 +0000
From: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: UK Mirror
References: <19990321202908.A242@klamath.lilithfair.org> <3595-Mon22Mar1999005628+0100-levitte@lp.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary=6TrnltStXW4iwmi0
In-Reply-To: <3595-Mon22Mar1999005628+0100-levitte@lp.se>; from Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker on Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:56:28AM +0100


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Ysgrifennodd levitte@lp.se ar Mon, Mar 22, 1999 at 12:56:28AM +0100:
>    Hyl.
>=20
> The same to you.  That's Finnish, isn't it?

I think you missed off the =F4. And it's Welsh :)

>    Now that everyone's mirroring the website, I could host a UK mirror.
>=20
> *LOL* penguin effect?

"I mirror more sites than you, so _blaaghh_"

>    An entry as, for example, www.uk.free-vms.org -> 62.232.6.5x (for x as
>    an unused IP), would be good, or is it possible to do it without using
>    another IP?
>=20
> That completely depends on your web server.  Today, all clients will send
> a "Host: www.foo.bar" header together with the HTTP request, so if your
> server can catch that kind of request, it should work properly.  If you
> run the OSU http server ro Apache, I can tell you how to set up such a
> thing.

We're running Apache, so I'll probably do that .. we only have 14 IPs :(

>    (or even 62.232.6.53/www.free-vms.org/, but that's not very nice).
>=20
> No.  Ugly, ugly, let's avoid that if we can.

Indeed.

> BTW, is there a reason that IP address is nameless?

Yes, we don't have a domain name. Um. Yes. But, we are getting one! We shou=
ld
already have on in .eu.org, but they're slow as Windows.

> Anyway, I can set up a www.uk.free-vms.org whenever you wish.

Ok, well, if you could give me a hand with the web server, I'll get it soon
enough .. but I've never really configured a webserver before ..

Diolch, Edward.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 23:36:59 +0100
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:36:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Noah Paul <noahp@altavista.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: "Edward John M. Brocklesby" <ejb@klamath.demon.co.uk>
CC: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: UK Mirror
In-Reply-To: <19990322192605.A281@klamath.lilithfair.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990322173514.26269A-100000@merlin>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I can help you here, assuming it's Apache-on-UNIX. 

>
>Ok, well, if you could give me a hand with the web server, I'll get it soon
>enough .. but I've never really configured a webserver before ..
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:14:14 +0100
Message-ID: <36F53074.33C955DE@acornsw.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:46:39 +0000
From: Dick Munroe <munroe@acornsw.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: [Fwd: VAX / VMS Manuals etc..]
References: <36F4AAA0.CADBA808@guntersville.net>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------177A57BEEFA47B343D570E3A"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------177A57BEEFA47B343D570E3A
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You can also see my collection online at:

    http://www.acornsw.com/book

Dick Munroe

"John C. Ellingboe" wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Anyone in England that needs VAX/VMS manuals.  I just happened to see
> this on the vmsnet.pdp-11 news group.
>
> John
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: VAX / VMS Manuals etc..
> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:22:25 +0000
> From: "Tim. Bluck." <tb@oes-ee.demon.co.uk>
> Organization: O.E.S. Electronics Engineers.
> Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
>
> Hello.
>         I have A whole load of Dec vax / vms / basic / all-in-one.....
> manuals, If anybody would like any of them, or if there's any interest
> at all, I'll try to post a list of what I have..
>
> They're free, You just pay for the postage, or collect.  I'm in North
> Kent, England.  And I can be reached at the following e-mail address.
>
> tb@planet-tharg.demon.co.uk
>
> Many thanks.
> Tim.R.Bluck.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   John C. Ellingboe - KE4BPW <john@guntersville.net>
>   Owner/Admin
>   The Guntersville Computer Center
>
>   John C. Ellingboe - KE4BPW
>   Owner/Admin                       <john@guntersville.net>
>   The Guntersville Computer Center
>                                     Conference Software Address
>                                     Default Directory Server
>   Additional Information:
>   Last Name Ellingboe - KE4BPW
>   First NameJohn C.
>   Version   2.1

--------------177A57BEEFA47B343D570E3A
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Content-Description: Card for Dick Munroe
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begin:vcard 
adr;dom:;;267 Cox St.;Hudson;Ma;01749;
n:Munroe;Dick
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Acorn Software, Inc.
version:2.1
email;internet:munroe@acornsw.com
title:Chief Technology Officer
tel;fax:978 562 1133
tel;work:888 226 7679
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Munroe, Dick
end:vcard

--------------177A57BEEFA47B343D570E3A--


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 08:17:02 +0100
Message-ID: <36F5A8A7.DB19499D@acornsw.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:19:20 +0000
From: Dick Munroe <munroe@acornsw.com>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: [Fwd: VAX / VMS Manuals etc..]
References: <36F4AAA0.CADBA808@guntersville.net>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------ACA5EFA0F30F0CF1CC417C4B"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------ACA5EFA0F30F0CF1CC417C4B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You can also see my collection online at:

    http://www.acornsw.com/book

Dick Munroe

"John C. Ellingboe" wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Anyone in England that needs VAX/VMS manuals.  I just happened to see
> this on the vmsnet.pdp-11 news group.
>
> John
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: VAX / VMS Manuals etc..
> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 10:22:25 +0000
> From: "Tim. Bluck." <tb@oes-ee.demon.co.uk>
> Organization: O.E.S. Electronics Engineers.
> Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
>
> Hello.
>         I have A whole load of Dec vax / vms / basic / all-in-one.....
> manuals, If anybody would like any of them, or if there's any interest
> at all, I'll try to post a list of what I have..
>
> They're free, You just pay for the postage, or collect.  I'm in North
> Kent, England.  And I can be reached at the following e-mail address.
>
> tb@planet-tharg.demon.co.uk
>
> Many thanks.
> Tim.R.Bluck.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>   John C. Ellingboe - KE4BPW <john@guntersville.net>
>   Owner/Admin
>   The Guntersville Computer Center
>
>   John C. Ellingboe - KE4BPW
>   Owner/Admin                       <john@guntersville.net>
>   The Guntersville Computer Center
>                                     Conference Software Address
>                                     Default Directory Server
>   Additional Information:
>   Last Name Ellingboe - KE4BPW
>   First NameJohn C.
>   Version   2.1
--------------ACA5EFA0F30F0CF1CC417C4B
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Dick Munroe
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename="munroe.vcf"

begin:vcard 
adr;dom:;;267 Cox St.;Hudson;Ma;01749;
n:Munroe;Dick
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
org:Acorn Software, Inc.
version:2.1
email;internet:munroe@acornsw.com
title:Chief Technology Officer
tel;fax:978 562 1133
tel;work:888 226 7679
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Munroe, Dick
end:vcard

--------------ACA5EFA0F30F0CF1CC417C4B--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 01:32:15 +0100
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 01:32:07 +0100
Message-ID: <4670-Wed24Mar1999013207+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: free-vms@lp.se
Subject: Lookee here what I found...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I'm looking at the docs for OpenVMS 7.2, and in the Utility Routines
Manual, I found what is called the "Common File Qualifier Routines",
which is a small set of routines that helps you parse the qualifiers
/BEFORE=, /CONFIRM, /SINCE=, /MODIFIED, /CREATED, /BACKUP, /EXPIRED,
/BY_OWNER= and /EXCLUDE=.  This is pretty interesting, and I've been
tinkering with something similar for Free-VMS already.  However, now
that such routines seem to become a supported part of OpenVMS, I see
no reason why not clone that effort.  I will get on with it within a
few days.

My work will of course base itself on existing OpenVMS routines, for
example the CLI$ routines and STR$MATCH_WILD.  My hope is that those
routines will appear sooner or later, by my hand or somebody else's.

If anyone is curious about these new routines, check out
http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/72final/4493/4493pro_004.html#4493_cqual_chap

Routines like these would make a substantial amount of smaller programs
much easier to code.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:13:55 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990323191811.2ae7957e@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:18:11
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Lookee here what I found...
In-Reply-To: <4670-Wed24Mar1999013207+0100-levitte@lp.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:32 3/24/99 +0100, Richard Levitte wrote:
>Routines like these would make a substantial amount of smaller programs
>much easier to code.

Um, is there some reason *NOT* to use the CLI$ routines for this?

See 
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/freevms/mentor/dcl_cmd.html
and
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/freevms/mentor/crembx.bas 
for an example...

Within whatever library, you could probably use the UTIL$CQUAL* routines
for something. But within the "smaller programs" would you necessarily
*WANT* to re-invent that many wheels in each one?

David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 02:24:28 +0100
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990323192835.3cd70d68@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:28:35
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Lookee here what I found...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

See also:
http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/72final/4493/4493pro_003.html

Note that for CUSPs ("Commonly Used System Programs", old RSTS/E term -
sorry), you won't be treating these as "foreign" commands - they'll be in
the command tables. So, it will be entirely valid to use CLI$PRESENT to see
if a qualifier was included onthe command line and, if so, use
CLI$GET_VALUE to get the qualifier value(s) (if appropriate).

>Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:18:11
>To: Free-VMS@lp.se
>From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Lookee here what I found...
>In-Reply-To: <4670-Wed24Mar1999013207+0100-levitte@lp.se>
>
>At 01:32 3/24/99 +0100, Richard Levitte wrote:
>>Routines like these would make a substantial amount of smaller programs
>>much easier to code.
>
>Um, is there some reason *NOT* to use the CLI$ routines for this?
>
>See 
>http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/freevms/mentor/dcl_cmd.html
>and
>http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/freevms/mentor/crembx.bas 
>for an example...
>
>Within whatever library, you could probably use the UTIL$CQUAL* routines
for something. But within the "smaller programs" would you necessarily
*WANT* to re-invent that many wheels in each one?
>
David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 03:14:01 +0100
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 03:13:49 +0100
Message-ID: <7211-Wed24Mar1999031348+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19990323191811.2ae7957e@earthlink.net> (djesys@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: Lookee here what I found...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

   From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>

   At 01:32 3/24/99 +0100, Richard Levitte wrote:
   >Routines like these would make a substantial amount of smaller programs
   >much easier to code.

   Um, is there some reason *NOT* to use the CLI$ routines for this?

   [...]

   Within whatever library, you could probably use the UTIL$CQUAL* routines
   for something. But within the "smaller programs" would you necessarily
   *WANT* to re-invent that many wheels in each one?

David, what are you talking about?  As far as I understand, the
UTIL$CQUAL* routines will check for the qualifiers in question and grab
the values (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_PARSE), match files for you, checking the
correct time stamp and UIC for you as well as checking that it's not in
the /EXCLUDE list (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_MATCH), and also doing confirmation if
needed.  Building those routines once and for all instead of having each
program doing those same bits again and again hardly seems to be even
close to re-inventing the wheels for each one of them, does it?

Of course, you'll still need to parse all other possible qualifiers using
the usual CLI$ routines, but that's a different story.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:50:29 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:13:55 -0600
Message-ID: <0003237A.C21492@advocatehealth.com>
From: David.Dachtera@advocatehealth.com (David Dachtera)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re[4]: Do we need to use ODSx for Free-VMS?
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: cc:Mail note part

   Found this on 
   http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/wiz_2131.html
   
   (ODS-3 and ODS-4) are reserved for (and used by) the ISO 
   9660 and High Sierra CD-ROM formats, respectively.
   
   Thought you might find that interesting...
   
   David J. Dachtera
   dba DJE Systems
   http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/
   
   The following text is inserted unconditionally by the 
   mail system and can safely be ignored...
**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they   
are addressed. 

If you have received this email in error please notify 
the system manager at: Corrections@advocatehealth.com.

All other questions and problems to: postman@advocatehealth.com

Opinions and views expressed are not necessarily that of 
Advocate Health Care.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by 
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mimesweeper.com
-3.2.99djz-
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:33:15 +0100
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 07:33:09 +0100
Message-ID: <3595-Sat27Mar1999073309+0100-levitte@lp.se>
From: Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker <levitte@lp.se>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Mail repeats...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

MY appologies for some repeated messages.  A mail queue foolup needed to
be handled, and I prefer resending some messages than killing messages
that shouldn't be killed.

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 06:28:54 +0200
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990328223242.468fed4a@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:32:42
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Subject: Re: Lookee here what I found...
In-Reply-To: <7211-Wed24Mar1999031348+0100-levitte@lp.se>
References: <3.0.3.16.19990323191811.2ae7957e@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 03:13 3/24/99 +0100, Richard Levitte wrote:
>As far as I understand, the
>UTIL$CQUAL* routines will check for the qualifiers in question and grab
>the values (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_PARSE), match files for you, checking the
>correct time stamp and UIC for you as well as checking that it's not in
>the /EXCLUDE list (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_MATCH), and also doing confirmation if
>needed.  

From reading the web site info., I did not get the impression that a single
routine was available which acts as a "shell" to the others. That is, there
does not seem to be a single routine to replace the calls to LIB$FIND_FILE
that one would normally use to do the wildcard matches.

>Building those routines once and for all instead of having each
>program doing those same bits again and again ...

...is the eutopia we're all looking for. I'm sure I must have missed
something. The page is like me - rather verbose, and none too lucid.

That you can tell, is there something like a UTIL$CQUAL_FIND_FILE that
encompasses all of these?

If so, that *THAT'S* what we want to have in FreeVMS.

David J. Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:38:41 +0200
To: <free-vms@lp.se>
Subject: Re: Lookee here what I found...
Message-ID: <LEVITTE.99Mar29102614@nic.bofh.se>
From: levitte@lp.se (Richard Levitte - VMS Whacker)
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Date: 29 Mar 1999 08:26:14 GMT
References: <3.0.3.16.19990323191811.2ae7957e@earthlink.net><3.0.3.16.19990328223242.468fed4 a@earthlink.net>
In-Reply-To: "David J. Dachtera"'s message of Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:32:42
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <3.0.3.16.19990328223242.468fed4a@earthlink.net> "David J. Dachtera" <djesys@earthlink.net> writes:

   At 03:13 3/24/99 +0100, Richard Levitte wrote:
   >As far as I understand, the
   >UTIL$CQUAL* routines will check for the qualifiers in question and grab
   >the values (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_PARSE), match files for you, checking the
   >correct time stamp and UIC for you as well as checking that it's not in
   >the /EXCLUDE list (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_MATCH), and also doing confirmation if
   >needed.  

   From reading the web site info., I did not get the impression that a single
   routine was available which acts as a "shell" to the others. That is, there
   does not seem to be a single routine to replace the calls to LIB$FIND_FILE
   that one would normally use to do the wildcard matches.

LIB$FIND_FILE will do wildcard matches on the files you specified a
search for, yes.  But then what?  Typically, you'd do something like
the following (C-like pseudo-code!) for each specified file:

	while (LIB$FIND_FILE(filespec, result_file, &context)) {
		fn = parse_fn(result_file); /* to get file name, type
					       and version only */
		for (ex_p = exclude_list; *ex_p != 0; ex_p++) {
			if (STR$MATCH_WILD(fn, *ex_p) == STR$_MATCH)
				goto next_while;
		get_stats(result_file, &stats_block); /* Get file stats */
		if (stats_block.uic != by_owner) /* wildcards? */
			goto next_while;
		switch (what_timestamp) {
		case MODIFIED:
			t = stats_block.modified;
		case CREATED:
			t = stats_block.created;
		case BACKUP:
			t = stats_block.backup;
		case EXPIRED:
			t = stats_block.expired;
		}
		if (t < since || t > before)
			goto next_while;
		if (confirm && !ask_user(result_file))
			goto next_while;

		/* OK, time for work! */
		...

	next_while:;
	}

Now, instead, the following would be done:

	while (LIB$FIND_FILE(filespec, result_file, &file_context)) {
		prompt = "Foo " + result_file + "? ";
		if (UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_MATCH(&util_context, 0,
					  &result_file, &prompt, 0, 0,
					  &prompt_form, 0)) {
			/* OK, time for work! */
			...
		}
	}

So, UTIL$CQUAL_FILE_MATCH is not supposed to replace LIB$FIND_FILE,
it's supposed to replace the tedious work of checking the most typical
qualifiers that are used by all the file-handling programs that come
with OpenVMS.  This routine has most probably existed for a long time
within Digital...

   That you can tell, is there something like a UTIL$CQUAL_FIND_FILE
   that encompasses all of these?

No, but that wouldn't accomplish much, just would remove the call to
LIB$FIND_FILE.  That's not really the most tedious part, is it?

   If so, that *THAT'S* what we want to have in FreeVMS.

Well, I see no real problem in providing that as well :-).

-- 
R Levitte, Levitte Programming;  Spannv. 38, I;  S-168 35  Bromma;  SWEDEN
    Tel: +46-8-26 52 47; Cell: +46-708-26 53 44; Fax: +46-708-26 53 88
  PGP key fingerprint = 35 3E 6C 9E 8C 97 85 24  BD 9F D1 9E 8F 75 23 6B
 http://richard.levitte.org/pubkey2.asc for my public key.  levitte@lp.se

          "price, performance, quality.  Choose any two you like"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:43:10 +0200
From: JayPed@aol.com
Reply-To: Free-VMS@lp.se
Message-ID: <ad557855.37025e9a@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:42:50 EST
To: Free-VMS@lp.se
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Linux as a bootstrap OS
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/15/99 1:52:31 PM Central Standard Time,
patrick@pandh.demon.co.uk writes:

<< 3. It has a DECnet protcol stack available with applications - I know, I'm
    writing them! see http://www.dreamtime.org/decnet. >>

Editors note: this appears to be at http://linux.dreamtime.org/decnet/