Article 55376 of soc.roots: Newsgroups: soc.roots Path: news.kth.se!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!zip.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!suncad.camosun.bc.ca!freenet.victoria.bc.ca!freenet.Victoria.BC.CA!ug484 From: ug484@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Wes Combs) Subject: Just returned from China. Message-ID: <1994Aug10.122733.7670@freenet.victoria.bc.ca> Sender: news@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (News Manager) Organization: Victoria Freenet Association Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 12:27:33 GMT Lines: 22 I have recently returned from spending the month of July in China. While there, several younger educated Chinese told me that they know little of their ancestry beyond their living grandparents because the destruction of ancestral records had been ordered/encouraged during the Cultural Revolution. I was there lecturing on cattle breeding and remembered that I had my own PAF pedigrees on the hard disk of my Toshiba notebook. My colleagues who all spoke English very well, were very impressed that we too are "ancestor worshippers" and that with the pressing of a button, I could call up multi-generations back to England and Germany on the screen. If any of you know more than this about genealogy in China, it would be of interest to me. Wes Combs P.S. The destruction of ancestral records was part of the casting off of "old ways". -- Article 55622 of soc.roots: Path: news.kth.se!sunic!trane.uninett.no!nac.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ex964 From: ex964@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Lester D. K. Chow) Newsgroups: soc.roots Subject: Just to let U know: Chinese genealogy exists! Date: 16 Aug 1994 00:50:13 GMT Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 21 Message-ID: <32p2g5$ish@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: ex964@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Lester D. K. Chow) NNTP-Posting-Host: kanga.ins.cwru.edu @@@@@@@@@@ I am writing this very short message to inform whomever out there looking for Chinese family genealogy that records do exist. Many friends of mine, American-born Chinese have quit looking for gen- ealogy information upon the belief that no records exist! Well to the contrary, records exist and I have been able to trace my family's genealogy back 4,000 years! Guess what Ghengis Khan is a relative of mine!!! Records available: Chow, Chang, Lum, Dang, Wong, Chock, Tam, Ho, Ching, Goo, Lai, Choy, Sun, Chiang family records. Also, Aisin- gioro and Imperial mongol. Chun records, also, going back to the Ming Dynasty. Best wishes to all genealogists, I've found mine! Lester Chow P.O. Box 4604 Honolulu, HI 96812-4604 @@@@@@@@@@ Article 5902 of soc.genealogy.misc: Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Path: news.kth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!clpd-newsserver!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!ub!freenet.buffalo.edu!bb430 From: bb430@freenet.buffalo.edu (Lester D. K. Chow) Subject: CHINA'S IMPERIAL GENEALOGY -- Info Message-ID: Sender: nntp@acsu.buffalo.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: freenet.buffalo.edu Reply-To: bb430@freenet.buffalo.edu (Lester D. K. Chow) Organization: State University of New York At Buffalo, NY (USA) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 01:08:41 GMT Lines: 16 I have access to genealogy records, written in Chinese, of different Chinese surnames and access to China's Imperial family from 2205 B.C. until the present. I would like to contact and organize a Chow Clansman Association for the US and Western world. Contact: Lester D. K. Chow, P.O. Box 4604, Honolulu, Hawaii 96812. Send a self- addressed stamped envelope for reply. lchow@HOL.Com or bb430@freenet.buffalo.edu -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Lester D. K. Chow, P.O. Box 4604, Honolulu, Hawaii 96812/bb430@freenet. buffalo.edu/Insurance company exeutive/visitor to NY and former resident/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Article 18845 of soc.genealogy.misc: Path: news.kth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!newsfeed.ACO.net!swidir.switch.ch!in2p3.fr!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde!gatech!taco.cc.ncsu.edu!newton.uncg.edu!hamlet!cwsulliv From: cwsulliv@hamlet.uncg.edu (Charles W. Sullivan) Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: Why no Asians Date: 17 Jan 1996 20:38:50 GMT Organization: The University of North Carolina at Greensboro Lines: 36 Message-ID: <4djmoq$o9p@newton.uncg.edu> References: <4deap6$4s1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hamlet.uncg.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Tanbutts (tanbutts@aol.com) wrote: : I am just curious why you never see any postings for Asians on any of the : genealogy newsgroups. Do they all know there ancestors or just not : interested? A Chinese-American former colleague once told me about the state of "vital records" in China (which part I don't know.) If I recollect properly: Births and marriages are traditionally recorded by a Priest in the family's book kept at the Temple in the family's hometown. These books go back hundreds of years. Reflecting the low status of women in traditional Chinese culture the first names of females in a marriage are not recorded, only a notation that so-and-so was married to a woman from the nnnn family. Many, if not most, of the family books were apparently destroyed during the "Great Leap Forward" in the 1960's. It was not made clear to me how an overseas Chinese would see that records of his immediate family were updated, short of visiting the hometown in China. Based on the above, a Chinese genealogy study would be just a one-stop event (or non-event, as the case may be.) Perhaps a Chinese rooter could expand on this. Regards, Charles Sullivan Article 18911 of soc.genealogy.misc: Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: Why no Asians From: don.poyner@canrem.com (Don Poyner) Path: news.kth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!newsfeed.ACO.net!swidir.switch.ch!in2p3.fr!oleane!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!weld.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!istar.net!news1.toronto.fonorola.net!news1.toronto.istar.net!news.toronto.istar.net!news.crso.com!canrem.com!don.poyner Distribution: world Message-ID: <60.12540.2124.0N2076B7@canrem.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 08:54:00 -0500 Organization: CRS Online (Toronto, Ontario) Lines: 33 Subject: Re: Why no Asians JJ>>I am just curious why you never see any postings for Asians on any of the JJ>>genealogy newsgroups. Do they all know there ancestors or just not JJ>>interested? JJ>>Gordon Grening JJ>Gordon, JJ> My wife's family has a book has a book that is kept by the oldest male JJ>son. Every New Year the book is opened and the important happenings JJ>of the prior year are entered...births, deaths, marriages, etc.. I JJ>have never check but, I am told that it traces my wife's family back JJ>almost six hundred years. I think in most overseas Asian familys JJ>genealogy is part of the lifestyle and thus isn't as interesting as it JJ>is to us who see it as an adventure. It would be my guess that most JJ>of the American-Asians have become become westernized to this point. JJ>My thoughts for what they are worth. I have the same situation. My father-in-law told me about his oldest son in Hong Kong who would be my wife's half brother. Apparently, he has a family genealogy that goes back 700 years, that is completely written in Chinese, and I suspect that it is hand written, and has been passed down for generations. I suspect that this is very common among Chinese families, but I'm not sure about other Asian groups. My wife knows very little about her mother's side, which is Filipino. I would love to get ahold of that 700 year genealogy along with a translater. (My wife doesn't speak Chinese & my father-in-law only speaks very limited broken English.) * 1st 2.00o #136 * Article 18989 of soc.genealogy.misc: Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Path: news.kth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!mn6.swip.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!weld.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.duc.auburn.edu!mallard!newhoir From: newhoir@mail.auburn.edu (Irene Newhouse) Subject: Re: Why no Asians Message-ID: Sender: usenet@mail.auburn.edu (Usenet Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: mallard2.duc.auburn.edu Organization: Auburn University X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:31:14 GMT Lines: 13 As an undergrad, I took a course in Chinese culture/history from a Chinese ex-patriate whose family had been landowners in China, and well-educated. According to him, genealogies spanning several centuries were the norm for all upper-class families. I don't know what the situation was for peasants [the vast majority of the population...] In addition, he said that each family had a family poem, & that each succeeding generation was given the next word in the poem as a middle name. I'm sure that many of these priceless documents were destroyed in the Cultural Revolution. Irene Newhouse Article 18990 of soc.genealogy.misc: Path: news.kth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!fizban.solace.mh.se!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!paladin.american.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!news.eas.asu.edu!news.asu.edu!tarchon From: tarchon@imap2.asu.edu Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: Why no Asians Date: 20 Jan 1996 06:52:20 GMT Organization: Arizona State University Lines: 37 Message-ID: <4dq3f4$47m@news.asu.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: general1.asu.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Irene Newhouse (newhoir@mail.auburn.edu) wrote: : As an undergrad, I took a course in Chinese culture/history from a : Chinese ex-patriate whose family had been landowners in China, and : well-educated. According to him, genealogies spanning several centuries : were the norm for all upper-class families. I don't know what the : situation was for peasants [the vast majority of the population...] In : addition, he said that each family had a family poem, & that each : succeeding generation was given the next word in the poem as a middle name. The Chinese have a lot of really fascinating naming customs, though I hadn't heard that one before. I have a friend who got her name partly because the character had an auspicious number of strokes. There's also a tendency for children of the same family all to have one of the two usual personal name components the same (apparently selected from the poem?), which bears an odd resemblence to a similar custom among Germanic peoples of the Migration Age in Europe. : I'm sure that many of these priceless documents were destroyed in the : Cultural Revolution. >From what I've heard and seen, it was in all respects a complete disaster for the country. The "overseas Chinese" are in the unusual position in many cases of preserving the traditions of China that have been severely eroded in their country of origin. I suspect the same may often hold true of the genealogical tradition, particularly since evidence of a non-proletarian family background has been a serious albatross around the neck of many PRC Chinese unlucky enough to have had ancestors that did well for themselves. I highly doubt that such people were strongly motivated to keep traditions about their genealogy alive or look after such records. Of course the Taiwanese are still fairly traditional, but then quite a lot of them and their families got to Taiwan as refugees, so I suspect many didn't get a chance to bring along the 700-year-old family genealogy while fleeing for their lives from Communist troops. Hong Kong and Kowloon would probably still be fertile genealogy ground though. Ben Buckner buckner@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu Article 25118 of soc.genealogy.misc: Path: news.kth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!unixhub!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail From: hkthom@leland.Stanford.EDU (howard thompson) Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: Most Common Surnames, worldwide. Date: 8 May 1996 13:57:11 -0700 Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4mr1r7$ql1@elaine43.Stanford.EDU> References: <318FFF76.24FE@magicnet.net> <4mqpr3$ceq@news.asu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: elaine43.stanford.edu In article <4mqpr3$ceq@news.asu.edu>, wrote: >Robert Grube (rgrube@magicnet.net) wrote: >: Could anyone give me a clue how to find a reliable source of the most >: common surnames in the world? > >There's http://www.census.gov/ftp/pub/genealogy/www/freqnames.html, which >has the frequencies of surnames in the US. I've seen lists for other >countries, but I can't give you exact references. My guess would be >that the Chinese Li probably has the top spot worldwide. Actually it is the Chinese Chang, along with it's other forms (Chan, etc.). ========================================================================= = Howard Thompson. Lisp users, today is the CAR of the CDR of your life = = hkthom@leland.stanford.edu, http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~hkthom = = I'm from the South. Please speak slowly. = =========================================================================