Article 16485 of soc.genealogy.medieval: Path: news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!newsfeed.nacamar.de!howland.erols.net!winter.news.erols.com!news From: wrei@127.0.0.1 (William Addams Reitwiesner) Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval Subject: Re: Princess Di's matrilineal descent Followup-To: alt.talk.royalty Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:17:31 GMT Organization: WARGS Lines: 28 Message-ID: <340c1aa0.7108777@news.erols.com> References: <19970825162401.MAA15629@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: spg-as27s56.erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Received-On: 26 Aug 1997 01:21:13 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99g/16.339 Xref: news.kth.se soc.genealogy.medieval:16485 wsmorganv@aol.com (WSMORGANV) wrote: >I have seen some citations regarding Princess Diana's matrilineal descent >(female line from daughter to mother) can be traced back to an Armenian >concubine of a British soldier stationed in India. > >Can anyone confirm this and/or shed additional light on the lineage? True. Eliza Kevork = Theodore Forbes (1788-1820) Katherine Scott Forbes (1812-1893) m. James Crombie (1810-1878) Jane Crombie (1843-1917) m. 1872 David Littlejohn (1841-1924) Ruth Littlejohn (1879-1964) m. 1898 Col. William Smith Gill (1865-1957) Ruth Gill (1908-1993) m. 1931 Maurice Burke Roche 4 B Fermoy (1885-1955) Frances Burke Roche (b. 1936) m. 1954 % 1969 Edward Spencer 8 E Spencer (1924-1992) Diana Spencer (b. 1961) m. 1981 % Charles P of Wales (*1948) Further discussion of this is (in my opinion) off-topic for this newsgroup, so I've set followups appropriately. William Addams Reitwiesner wrei@erols.com "Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc." Article 47743 of soc.genealogy.misc: Path: news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!news1.exit109.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!164.67.42.145!nntp.info.ucla.edu!132.239.254.208!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!news.qut.edu.au!mstation From: m.goddard@qut.edu.au (MLG) Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: Princess Diana's Royal Ancestory Question? Answered! Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 15:47:47 GMT Organization: Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Australia Lines: 53 Distribution: world Message-ID: <5v7ik3$s89@dove.qut.edu.au> References: <5v2cla$lla@dove.qut.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: mstation.eese.qut.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: news.kth.se soc.genealogy.misc:47743 To all those who replied to my post with information Thanks. For those who are interested themselves, the lineage is listed below Malcolm L. Goddard Brisbane, Australia Princess Diana's own Royal lineage from the STUARTs is: > >Charles II > > Henry Fitzroy > > Charles Fitzroy > > Isabella Fitzroy > > Hugh Seymour > > Horace Seymour > > Adelaide Seymour > > Charles Spencer > > Albert Spencer > > Edward Spencer > > Diana Spencer In article <5v2cla$lla@dove.qut.edu.au>, m.goddard@qut.edu.au (MLG) wrote: >soc.genealogy.misc >Princess Diana's Royal Ancestory Question? > >Does anyone know of, or have a GEDCOM file which contains Princess Diana's >own Royal Ancestory. > >Apparently she decsends from a son of Charles II, (Bar Sinister, that is, >as Charles II had no legal issue). Her and Prince Charles were 7th cousins >once removed, I think, but cannot find the data to back this up. > >If anyone can help please email me direct. > >Regards >Malcolm L. Goddard >Brisbane, Australia >m.goddard@qut.edu.au Article 48021 of soc.genealogy.misc: Path: news.kth.se!nntp.uio.no!news.uoregon.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.69.200.61!mindspring!news.mindspring.com!usenet From: jcherepy@mindspring.com (Bill Cherepy) Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.misc Subject: Re: Princess Diana's Royal Ancestory Question? Answered! Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:01:04 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3423e2ad.73384139@news.mindspring.com> References: <5v2cla$lla@dove.qut.edu.au> <5v7ik3$s89@dove.qut.edu.au> <342351bc.4756950@news.real.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-2k7i9hk.dialup.mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 20 Sep 1997 15:00:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Xref: news.kth.se soc.genealogy.misc:48021 On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:53:53 GMT, rmpeeler@real.net.au (Rosemary Peeler) wrote: >I think I read somewhere that the 7th cousin thing between Charles and >Diana was not through royal lines, but both being descended from one >of the Dukes of Devonshire. > >Rosemary in Sydney, Australia > According to the info from the Royal92.GED, which I imported into Family Origins for Windoze, they are 11th cousins with James I as a common ancestor and 11th cousins with Anne of Denmark as a common ancestor. Bill Cherepy jcherepy@mindspring.com Grayson, GA Article 18016 of soc.genealogy.medieval: Path: news.kth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!130.240.42.8.MISMATCH!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!worldnet.att.net!newsadm From: "D. Spencer Hines" Newsgroups: alt.talk.royalty,soc.genealogy.medieval Subject: Ancestors of Prince William Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 08:47:40 -1000 Organization: The Mory's Association Lines: 220 Message-ID: <68godj$k24@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.64.35.121 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: news.kth.se soc.genealogy.medieval:18016 1. Leo van de Pas' six-generation Ahnenreihe for Princes William and Henry is a welcome addition to the literature. 2. Here is a fledgling attempt at a seven-generation [soixante-quatre quartiers] Ahnenreihe, building on many standard sources. 3. This is clearly a work in progress and I welcome additions, corrections, dates and discussion concerning proper titles. 4. Happy New Year To All! 5. We might want to start by tracing Theodore Forbes' [#126] ancestry. Ancestors of Lady Diana Frances SPENCER - 1 Jan 1998 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- FIRST GENERATION 1. Lady Diana Frances SPENCER was born on 1 Jul 1961 in Park House, Sandringham, Norfolk, England. She died on 31 Aug 1997 in Paris, France. She was buried on 6 Sep 1997 in Althorp, England. SECOND GENERATION 2. Edward John SPENCER 8th Earl Spencer was born on 24 Jan 1924 in Sussex Square, London, England. He died on 29 Mar 1992 in London, England. He was married to Honourable Frances Ruth Burke ROCHE on 1 Jun 1954 in Westminister Abbey, London, England. 3. Honourable Frances Ruth Burke ROCHE was born on 20 Jan 1936 in Park House, Sandringham, Norfolk, England. THIRD GENERATION 4. Albert Edward John SPENCER 7th Earl Spencer was born on 23 May 1892 in London, England. He died on 9 Jun 1975 in Northampton. He was married to Lady Cynthia Eleanor Beatrix HAMILTON on 26 Feb 1919 in London, England. 5. Lady Cynthia Eleanor Beatrix HAMILTON was born on 16 Aug 1897. She died on 4 Dec 1972 in Althorp, England. 6. Lord Edmund Maurice Burke ROCHE 4th Baron Fermoy was born on 15 May 1885 in Chelsea. He died on 8 Jul 1955 in King's Lynn. He was married to Ruth Sylvia GILL on 17 Sep 1931 in Bieldside, St. Devenick's. 7. Ruth Sylvia GILL was born on 2 Oct 1908 in Dalhebity, Bieldside, Aberdeenshire. She died on 6 Jul 1993. FOURTH GENERATION 8. Charles Robert SPENCER 6th Earl Spencer was born on 30 Oct 1857. He died on 26 Sep 1922 in London, England. He was married to Honourable Margaret BARING on 25 Jul 1887 in St. James's, Piccadilly. 9. Honourable Margaret BARING was born on 14 Dec 1868 in London, England. She died on 4 Jul 1906 in London, England. 10. James Albert Edward HAMILTON 3rd Duke of Abercorn was born on 30 Nov 1869 in London, England. He died on 12 Sep 1953 in London, England. He was married to Lady Rosalind Cecilia Caroline BINGHAM on 1 Nov 1894 in London, England. 11. Lady Rosalind Cecilia Caroline BINGHAM was born on 26 Feb 1869 in London, England. She died on 18 Jan 1958 in London, England. 12. Lord James Boothby Burke ROCHE 3rd Baron Fermoy was born on 28 Jul 1851 in Twyford Abbey, Middlesex. He died on 30 Oct 1920 in Artillery Mansions, Westminster. He was married to Frances Ellen WORK on 22 Sep 1880 in New York, New York. 13. Frances Ellen WORK was born on 27 Oct 1857 in New York, New York. She died on 26 Jan 1947 in New York, New York. 14. Colonel William Smith GILL was born on 16 Feb 1865 in Aberdeen. He died on 25 Dec 1957 in Dalhebity, Bieldside, Aberdeenshire. He was married to Ruth LITTLEJOHN on 30 Jun 1898 in Aberdeen. 15. Ruth LITTLEJOHN was born on 4 Dec 1879 in Cotton Lodge, Woodside. She died on 24 Aug 1964 in Dalhebity, Bieldside, Aberdeenshire. FIFTH GENERATION 16. Frederick SPENCER 4th Earl Spencer was born on 14 Apr 1798 in The Admiralty, Whitehall. He died on 27 Dec 1857 in Althorp, England. He was married to Adelaide Horatia Elizabeth SEYMOUR on 9 Aug 1854 in St. James's, Westminster. 17. Adelaide Horatia Elizabeth SEYMOUR was born on 27 Jan 1825. She died on 29 Oct 1877 in Guilsborough, County Northampton. 18. Edward Charles BARING 1st Baron Revelstoke was born on 13 Apr 1828. He died on 17 Jul 1897 in London, England. He was married to Louisa Emily Charlotte BULTEEL Baroness Revelstoke on 30 Apr 1861 in St. Paul's, Knightsbridge. 19. Louisa Emily Charlotte BULTEEL Baroness Revelstoke was born in 1839. She died on 16 Oct 1892 in Membland, Devon. 20. James HAMILTON 2nd Duke of Abercorn was born on 24 Aug 1838 in Brighton, Sussex, England. He died on 3 Jan 1913 in London, England. He was married to Lady Mary Anna CURZON-HOWE on 7 Jan 1869 in London, England. 21. Lady Mary Anna CURZON-HOWE was born on 23 Jul 1848 in London, England. She died on 10 May 1929 in London, England. 22. George BINGHAM 4th Earl of Lucan was born on 8 May 1830. He died on 5 Jun 1914 in Laleham. He was married to Lady Cecilia Catherine GORDON-LENNOX on 17 Nov 1859 in London, England. 23. Lady Cecilia Catherine GORDON-LENNOX was born on 13 Apr 1835 in London, England. She died on 5 Oct 1910 in London, England. 24. Edmund Burke ROCHE 1st Baron Fermoy was born in Aug 1815. He died on 17 Sep 1874 in Trabolgan. He was married to Elizabeth Caroline BOOTHBY on 22 Aug 1848 in West Twyford, Middlesex. 25. Elizabeth Caroline BOOTHBY was born on 9 Aug 1821. She died on 26 Apr 1897 in Torquay, Devon. 26. Franklin H. WORK was born on 10 Feb 1819 in Chillicothe, Ohio. He died on 6 Mar 1911 in New York, New York. He was married to Ellen WOOD on 19 Feb 1857 in Manhattan, New York. 27. Ellen WOOD was born on 18 Jul 1831 in Chillicothe, Ohio. She died on 22 Feb 1877 in New York, New York. 28. Alexander Ogston GILL was born in 1833. He died in 1908. He was married to Barbara Smith MARR on 3 Dec 1862 in Tarves, Aberdeenshire. 29. Barbara Smith MARR was born in 1843. She died about 30 Jun 1898. 30. David LITTLEJOHN was born on 3 Apr 1841 in Aberdeen. He died on 11 May 1924 in Aberdeen. He was married to Jane CROMBIE on 29 Aug 1872 in Goval, New Machar, Aberdeenshire. 31. Jane CROMBIE was born in 1843. She died on 19 Sep 1917 in Aberdeen. SIXTH GENERATION 32. George John SPENCER Earl Spencer 2nd was born in 1758. He died in 1834. He was married to Lavinia BINGHAM in 1781. 33. Lavinia BINGHAM was born in 1762. She died in 1831. 34. Sir Horace Beauchamp SEYMOUR Colonel, K.C.H. was born on 22 Nov 1791. He died on 23 Nov 1851. He was married to Elizabeth Malet PALK on 15 May 1818. 35. Elizabeth Malet PALK died on 18 Jan 1827. 36. Henry BARING was born on 18 Jan 1776. He died in 1848. He was married to Cecilia Anne WINDHAM on 9 Jul 1825. 37. Cecilia Anne WINDHAM died in 1874. 38. John Crocker BULTEEL died in 1843. He was married to Lady Elizabeth GREY. 39. Lady Elizabeth GREY died in 1880. 40. James HAMILTON Duke Abercorn 1st was born on 21 Jan 1811. He died on 31 Oct 1885. He was married to Lady Louisa Jane RUSSELL on 25 Oct 1832. 41. Lady Louisa Jane RUSSELL died on 31 Mar 1905. 42. Earl HOWE 1st died in 1870. He was married to Anne GORE. 43. Anne GORE died in 1877. 44. George Charles BINGHAM Earl of Luchan 3rd was born on 16 Apr 1800. He died on 10 Nov 1888. He was married to Lady Anne BRUDENELL on 29 Jun 1829. 45. Lady Anne BRUDENELL died on 2 Apr 1877. 46. Charles of Richmond GORDON-LENNOX Duke of Richmond and Lennox 5th was born on 3 Aug 1791. He died in 1860. He was married to Lady Caroline PAGET. 47. Lady Caroline PAGET was born in 1796. She died on 12 Mar 1874. 48. Edward ROCHE died in 1855. He was married to Margaret Honoria CURTAIN. 49. Margaret Honoria CURTAIN died in 1862. 50. James Brownell BOOTHBY died in 1850. He was married to Charlotte CUNNINGHAM. 51. Charlotte CUNNINGHAM died in 1893. 52. John WORK. He was married to Sarah BOUDE. 53. Sarah BOUDE. 54. John WOOD died in 1847. He was married to Ellen STRONG. 55. Ellen STRONG died in 1863. 56. David GILL. He was married to Sarah OGSTON. 57. Sarah OGSTON. 58. William Smith MARR died in 1898. He was married to Helen BEAN. 59. Helen BEAN died in 1852. 60. William LITTLEJOHN died in 1888. He was married to Janet BENTLEY. 61. Janet BENTLEY died in 1848. 62. James CROMBIE was born in 1810. He died in 1878. He was married to Katherine Scott FORBES. 63. Katherine Scott FORBES was born in 1812. She died in 1893. SEVENTH GENERATION 64. John SPENCER 1st Earl Spencer was born in 1733/34. He died in 1783. He was a 1st Earl Spencer. 65. Margaret Georgiana POYNTZ was born in 1737. She died in 1814. 66. Charles BINGHAM Earl of Lucan was born on 22 Sep 1735. He died on 29 Mar 1799. He was married to Margaret SMITH on 25 Aug 1760. 67. Margaret SMITH died on 27 Feb 1814. 68. Admiral Lord Hugh SEYMOUR was born in 1759. He died on 11 Sep 1801. He was married to Lady Anna Horatia WALDEGRAVE on 2 Apr 1786. 69. Lady Anna Horatia WALDEGRAVE was born in 1759. She died on 12 Jun 1801. 70. Lawrence PALK 2nd Baronet was baptized on 6 Mar 1766 in Madras, India. He died on 20 Jun 1813 in London, England. He was married to Lady Dorothy Elizabeth VAUGHN on 15 Jun 1792 in Marleybone. 71. Lady Dorothy Elizabeth VAUGHN was born about 1764/65. She died on 15 Feb 1849 in London, England. 72. Francis BARING Baronet 1st, MP was born on 18 Apr 1740. He died on 12 Sep 1810. He was married to Harriet HERRING on 12 May 1767. 73. Harriet HERRING died on 3 Dec 1804. 74. Vice-Admiral William WINDHAM Royal Navy. 78. Lord GREY. He was married to Mary PONSONBY Countess Grey. 79. Mary PONSONBY Countess Grey. 82. John RUSSELL 9th Duke of Bedford was born on 6 Jul 1766. He died on 20 Oct 1839. He was married to Georgiana Elizabeth GORDON. 83. Georgiana Elizabeth GORDON died on 23 Feb 1853. 88. Richard BINGHAM Earl of Luchan 2nd was born on 4 Dec 1764. He died on 30 Dec 1839. He was married to Lady Elizabeth BELASYSE on 26 May 1794. 89. Lady Elizabeth BELASYSE died on 24 Mar 1819. 90. Robert BRUDENELL Earl of Cardigan 6th was born on 25 Apr 1769. He died on 14 Aug 1837. He was married to Penelope Anne COOKE on 8 Mar 1794. 91. Penelope Anne COOKE died on 2 Feb 1816. 92. Charles of Richmond GORDON-LENNOX Duke of Richmond and Lennox 4th was born in 1764. He died on 28 Aug 1819 in Canada. 93. Lady Charlotte GORDON died on 5 May 1842. 94. PAGET. 126. Theodore FORBES was born in 1788. He died in 1820. 127. Eliza KEVORK. -- D. Spencer Hines --- Leo Tolstoy On Firmly Held Beliefs and Resultant Mental Gridlock --- "I know that most men --- not only those considered clever, but even those who really are clever and capable of understanding the most difficult scientific, mathematical or philosophic problems, can seldom discern even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as obliges them to admit the falsity of conclusions they have formed, perhaps with great difficulty --- conclusions of which they are proud, which they have taught to others, and on which they have built their lives." Leo Tolstoy [1896] --- Source: "What Is Art?" --- Leo Tolstoy, Translated by Aylmer Maude, in Tolstoy's Collected Works, Charles Scribner's Sons, (1902), Volume 19, p. 468